Colnago C60 Traditional vs Slooping vs Pinarello Dogma F8

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Willem
Posts: 50
Joined: Mon Aug 15, 2016 10:03 pm

by Willem

3Pio wrote:Maybe i should open a new topic but let me ask first here.

I never have been good on downhill (even when i was racing MTB), and i prefer to climb then to go fast downhill.On last riding i was waiting for other on the top for 15-20 minutes, but on downhill they waited for me 15 minutes :)

So in this moment im riding Shamal Ultra wheelset, Attack/Force Contiental Tires and Vittoria Latex tubes. What i'll get in term of performance (specially climbing) and what i gonna loose if i upgrade to Campagnolo Bora Ultra 35 Tubular Wheelset?

Becouse im not that good downhill (on last ride on steep downhill 20 km long, i think i overheated even Shamal's), should i be worried that i'll destroy the Bora's from overheating?

Also the only complain i have in this moment is the stifness of the handlebar/stem im using. Very flexy. Im not sure which one is that much flexy (maybe both), but im thinking to upgrade the handlebar first becouse of this. Im using Zipp Service Course SL Handlebar (42cm, 80mm reach, 125mm drop), and Fizik Cyrano R1 110mm stem. Maybe becouse of this i dont feel bike very snap and precisly on downhills (maybe i just lack skills). So do u have any suggestion for handlebar and maybe stem upgrade from this?

Maybe if i get the handlebar with shorter reach (70 or 75mm), and in that case to go with longer stem (120mm) i'll get more stability on downhill?

Thanks


For me, heavier rims going downhill beyond 60km/h with curves feel a bit more stable.

IMHO, you have a huge advantage being able to climb better. I am the opposite and have to give everything to hang in uphill, then when descending I can open a gap if there are good corners. Take the wheel of the rider you trust going down hill and hang in. It is a great way to recover and hit them hard on the next climb. If you have several meters of descent you ride often with a lot of braking and you wish to stay on carbon, consider tubulars for those rides.

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3Pio
Posts: 1581
Joined: Wed Mar 09, 2016 7:13 pm

by 3Pio

Willem wrote:
3Pio wrote:Maybe i should open a new topic but let me ask first here.

I never have been good on downhill (even when i was racing MTB), and i prefer to climb then to go fast downhill.On last riding i was waiting for other on the top for 15-20 minutes, but on downhill they waited for me 15 minutes :)

So in this moment im riding Shamal Ultra wheelset, Attack/Force Contiental Tires and Vittoria Latex tubes. What i'll get in term of performance (specially climbing) and what i gonna loose if i upgrade to Campagnolo Bora Ultra 35 Tubular Wheelset?

Becouse im not that good downhill (on last ride on steep downhill 20 km long, i think i overheated even Shamal's), should i be worried that i'll destroy the Bora's from overheating?

Also the only complain i have in this moment is the stifness of the handlebar/stem im using. Very flexy. Im not sure which one is that much flexy (maybe both), but im thinking to upgrade the handlebar first becouse of this. Im using Zipp Service Course SL Handlebar (42cm, 80mm reach, 125mm drop), and Fizik Cyrano R1 110mm stem. Maybe becouse of this i dont feel bike very snap and precisly on downhills (maybe i just lack skills). So do u have any suggestion for handlebar and maybe stem upgrade from this?

Maybe if i get the handlebar with shorter reach (70 or 75mm), and in that case to go with longer stem (120mm) i'll get more stability on downhill?

Thanks


For me, heavier rims going downhill beyond 60km/h with curves feel a bit more stable.

IMHO, you have a huge advantage being able to climb better. I am the opposite and have to give everything to hang in uphill, then when descending I can open a gap if there are good corners. Take the wheel of the rider you trust going down hill and hang in. It is a great way to recover and hit them hard on the next climb. If you have several meters of descent you ride often with a lot of braking and you wish to stay on carbon, consider tubulars for those rides.



Thanks for ur reply.. Im thinking to upgrade to Tubular Bora's, but only if there is some improvement compared to my Shamal Ultra that i ride now (im riding with Latex Tubes, and Conti Attack/Force tires), and is not just cosmetic upgrade.

So what i'll really get in real world if i switch to Bora 35 or 50 compared to my Shamals?

And what i'll loose compared to my Shamals? (Again, not thinking Clinchers Boras, but Tubulars)

And i was thinking to go to Ultra's , but after reading forum threads about that, seem that there is no worth extra for Ultra's compared to One's, or im wrong? :)

998nox
Posts: 15
Joined: Wed Aug 24, 2016 8:38 am

by 998nox

I think dogma is better. Especially it's design~

998nox
Posts: 15
Joined: Wed Aug 24, 2016 8:38 am

by 998nox

I think dogma is better. Especially it's design~

3Pio
Posts: 1581
Joined: Wed Mar 09, 2016 7:13 pm

by 3Pio

Yesterday i had a proper Climbing test. I rode 156km and climbed 2750 meters ( two mountains).

https://www.strava.com/activities/689686613


And definetly C60 is wonderfull bike, very stiff when it's needed, and no punishment on bad roads.

Today rest day :), and reading about Colnago History :)

BTW, i think many reviews i read before buy give wrong picture on C60. Before i test ride it, i almost did not buy it because thinking based on reviews that is not stiff enough and not good for climbing. I got a picture that is more endurance bike and flexible. Glad i had a chance to test ride it, and to realize how nice is it, specially for climbing, and that is a perfect mix of racing bike and comfortable in same time.

jonghoonkim
Posts: 1
Joined: Sat Aug 27, 2016 8:54 pm

by jonghoonkim

C60 traditional!!!!!!!! fantastic!!!!

3Pio
Posts: 1581
Joined: Wed Mar 09, 2016 7:13 pm

by 3Pio

jonghoonkim wrote:C60 traditional!!!!!!!! fantastic!!!!


I did not buy it traditional :). I ended with sloping, but there is no big difference in stifness between Trad and sloping. I would say buy that version that fit u better in sizing.

3Pio
Posts: 1581
Joined: Wed Mar 09, 2016 7:13 pm

by 3Pio

Now after 850 km on C60, i want to order some things to better match the bike.

I mentioned before about Bottle Cages, so need ur opionion from few models im posting in this post which one would work best match functionality and in same time look of C60 MHRD.

Also i really like Camelback Podium Bottles (750ml), so i'll like to be able to still using them. If there is not possible, i'll order new bottles, but in that case ill need opionion about bottles that work good for u.

1. Colnago Black Gloss

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2. 3T Bottle Cage LTD

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3. Tune Wassertraeger 2.0

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4. Deda SR1 Bottle Cages

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Image


Im also open for any suggestion, but please consider im in Europe and i would like to order from some bikeshop here.

Thanks a lot

3Pio
Posts: 1581
Joined: Wed Mar 09, 2016 7:13 pm

by 3Pio

998nox wrote:I think dogma is better. Especially it's design~



Ok, after 1000 KM of my C60, and also test ride of Dogma F8 what we can see:


1. C60 have much better Paint Quality and more attention of details.

2. For me Design of Dogma is over designed, kind of design that is nice first month, after that is just fading out. C60 have the desing that would last for years without fading out.. Of course Design is personal thing, and this is just my opinion.


3. The building quality on C60 also look like better. Alloy cups for the bearings in the headset on C60 vs Carbon on Dogma, alloy insert for bottom bracket and possability to match new future standards etc...

4. And what im most surpised.. Actually the C60 is in same time stiffer then Dogma for Power Transfer and in same time more comfortable bike.. This feeeling that C60 is stiffer u can see in this this test of both (Dogma K8-S they tested i guess have same bottom bracket and same stifness with regular Dogma):

http://velonews.competitor.com/2016/04/ ... ide_397218

Colnago C60 numbers:

Lab Data: 18.4/20 (0.64mm BB deflection; 0.58mm head tube deflection)
Build: 13.9/15
Comfort: 12.0/15
Value: 11.7/15
Handling: 13.5/15
Pedaling response: 13.5/15
Aesthetics: 5.0/5

Overall 87.9/100


And Dogma K8-S numbers:


Lab: 17.0/20 (.69mm head tube deflection; .68mm BB deflection)
Build: 12.4/15
Comfort: 14.1/15
Value: 9.0/15
Handling: 13.9/15
Pedaling Response: 12.0/15
Aesthetics: 4.5/5

Overall: 82.9/100


After all this (and specially test ride of both), and fact that Pinarello have models like K8-S (Suspension on Road bike.. Hmm, does that mean that their carbon or engineering is not good enough to be created for bad terrain so they have to put suspension?), i have feeling that Pinarello go more and more about Marketing, and not really value, enthisasam and improvement.. Of course this dont need to be true, it's just the feeling i have.

I also have Pinarello Fp3 (which now my gf ride), and i was Pinarello fan until i didnt try Colnago.

Just to mention that there is some problem with the headset in my Fp3 since start (i need to over tighten the HeadSet and that mean often bearing replacement). The similar problem i can notice to both my friends who have Dogma (one of them F8, other one K8-S) .We'll see how long they'll last until more serious problem (they both have them just few months)

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