Cipollini Nk1k or Scott Foil 2016 HMX

[stormur]

Cipollini warranty issues are common, not rare. Part of the price you pay is aftersales service. If Cipollini declare it's product as "super-premium" what price indicate, all around should be at same level. But it's not. Looking how it can be made by NeilPryde or BMC - these things are incomparable.

2nd thing : Sale volume of Scott in comparison to Cipollini is enormous, so it affect warranty claims amount.

3rd : did you read carefully Cipollini warranty ? Are you absolutely and undoubtfully sure it is 10 years for frame, seatpost and fork ?

Next thing is, so what you have warranty, when manufacturer doesn't respond for the claim ???

Quality of any service or product is not advert before you spend money - it's quality of service when you did spend money and something went wrong. Here - unfortunately, I'm really fan of a guy and "his" bikes - Cipollini fails.

Sure Cipo has more "blink", sense of exclusivity and other blah blah. Call me heretic, but for me it is still JUST & ONLY sport EQUIPMENT. Tool. Machine. Main value of it was and is PERFORMANCE.

It won't raise my status, I won't nestle it on friday evenings, I don't have any need to "belong" to any "club of owners of something". I don't give a damn. What counts is performance for the €. Here Scott wins 4me. You can value other things - and that's beauty of 1st world - you can like whatever you want

As a client of consumer good I will always choose product with maybe less "luxury" branding, but better customer care. Specially if I don't sacrifice performance, and it cost me less money.

[REDUTOPIA]

Friends I tell you very thanks, but If you want help me, do not talk still about warranty service.
Very please, help me with technical advices.
The NK1K is handmade in Italy, where is made the new Foil HMX?


In really, what I'm considering mainly is that the NK1K is nearer at my ideal geometry for me while with the Scott Foil I will have more out seat tube but I will need a stem of 9cm because is too long.

Conversely, because I love do rides also with long climbs, maybe the Foil, what has a lower weight, is more all round frame.

Finally would be interesting a comparison between the carbon fiber of this two frame. T1000 and M46J vs HMX.

[kgt]

@Stormur
Cipollini warranty issues are not common, please... You had a bad experience and you may find a couple of similar cases online but that's all. Why do you generalize? My experience is completely positive and REDUTOPIA confirms that in Italy Cipo service works as it should. If you compare it with Scott's quality issues during the past (CR1 etc.) there's really not an issue at all.
And it is not about "blink, sense of exclusivity and other blah blah". If made in Italy vs made in China and monocoque vs tube to tube do not mean anything to you that's fine.

[kgt]

The NK1K is handmade in Italy, where is made the new Foil HMX?
...
Finally would be interesting a comparison between the carbon fiber of this two frame. T1000 and M46J vs HMX.

Scott is made in China or Taiwan.

In case these numbers mean something to you:
HMX
Tensile Modulus: 154GPa (fiber?)
Tensile Strength: 2950Mpa (fiber?)

M46J (Torayca)
Tensile Modulus: 436GPa (fiber) 265GPa (composite)
Tensile Strength: 4210Mpa (fiber) 2210GPa (composite)

T1000 (Torayca)
Tensile Modulus: 294GPa (fiber) 165GPa (composite)
Tensile Strength: 6370Mpa (fiber) 3040GPa (composote)

It's clear, I guess, which material is of the highest quality...
IMO the guys at Cipollini are not crazy, they want to sell as much as they can. Considering the made in Italy, the monocoque construction, the type of carbon used etc. etc. it's normal they charge at these prices.

Scott being lighter is a big plus, of course, but NK1K fitting you perfectly is much more important. A 9cm stem is not ideal for a road bike IMO. Do not compromise your fit for 200 grams. RB1K is heavy as well but all reviewers admit it climbs beautifuly.

[Succisa75]

Friends I tell you very thanks, but If you want help me, do not talk still about warranty service.
Very please, help me with technical advices.
The NK1K is handmade in Italy, where is made the new Foil HMX?


In really, what I'm considering mainly is that the NK1K is nearer at my ideal geometry for me while with the Scott Foil I will have more out seat tube but I will need a stem of 9cm because is too long.

Conversely, because I love do rides also with long climbs, maybe the Foil, what has a lower weight, is more all round frame.

Finally would be interesting a comparison between the carbon fiber of this two frame. T1000 and M46J vs HMX.

If the NK1K is more to your size and you don't need to compensate much on the fit as to the Scott then the choice is pretty clear.

I was previously riding a Storck Aernario which is a great bike but was slightly too big for me so I never felt comfortable on the bike.
After riding the NK1K for the past week which has a geometry that suits me more, the comfort issue is gone.

[REDUTOPIA]

From numbers I would say that the NK1K have, certainly very different features. Maybe the NK1K is much stiffer and in this point the BB386EVO bottom bracket vs the bb92 gives another contribution.

[wheelsONfire]

I chime in with a ridiculous saying here! But never the less, buy the bike that has best fit and the one that actually pops up in your head when you think of what bike you would want.
There is no question Cipo is an esoteric bike/ frame and Scott is mass produced. That is not saying Scott is a bad bike (not at all).
When it comes to warranty, i think it is difficult because there are many factors coming to play. Different people will sadly have different outcomes pending on how we handle the situation.
Maybe you should call Cipo if you are in Italy and clear out what you wonder?
It's a hefty price for a frame, so it's not strange if you would do that. List in short what you want to know and call them.
I think if you follow all mounting advices and do not crash, warranty should be fine.
Some dealers are not really that good handling warranty. To me it seems they rather play the supplier in the hands than a customer.
So if something would happen, i think if i were you, i would be very specific and explain exactly what happened.
I would certainly speak to Cipo in person if something was of an issue and not rely on the dealers response only!
I say this from own experience. If i had not being dealing with my issues i had, it had not been same outcome.
If you come to that situation, don't tell lies and no change of story ever. Be nice, but be determined!
Some guys bomb the internet with their story, but who knows exactly what has happened?
When it comes to a purchase like this, i would follow my heart and the passion. Without those two, you would not look for a Cipo, would you?
Hopes it turns out well. It's a god damn beautiful bike, the NK1K. I like the new Foil to, but if fit is better with Cipo that is the one i would go for if i were you.

[REDUTOPIA]

Another bike good for my geometry requirements is the new Wilier Zero.6. But maybe is this less prestigious such as fiber, manufacturing and features?

[kgt]

Wilier 0.6 is made in China but uses better materials than Foil. But this is a frame more suitable for lightweight climbers IMO. It is not that stiff and previous version had much criticism for a not that good front end.

BTW have you considered the Cipollini Bond? It is used by pro teams, still made in Italy, much cheaper and lighter than NK1K and a great all rounder.

Since you are in Italy other great frames (made in Italy) are Colnago C60 and De Rosa Protos. Actually you have hundreds of amazing, handmade in Italy frames to choose from... cm' on, you 're in Italy man!

[REDUTOPIA]

Wilier 0.6 is made in China but uses better materials than Foil. But this is a frame more suitable for lightweight climbers IMO. It is not that stiff and previous version had much criticism for a not that good front end.

BTW have you considered the Cipollini Bond? It is used by pro teams, still made in Italy, much cheaper and lighter than NK1K and a great all rounder.

Since you are in Italy other great frames (made in Italy) are Colnago C60 and De Rosa Protos. Actually you have hundreds of amazing, handmade in Italy frames to choose from... cm' on, you 're in Italy man!

I know that the Bond is not made in Italy. It is made in Bosnia.

Now I have the new Wilier Zero.7.

It is not that stiff and previous version had much criticism for a not that good front end.

what do you mean? I can not translate this.

I love the zero.7 /zero.6 for the geometry and for the integrated fork in ultralight frame. So don'like me the Colnago bike.


Is the carbon fiber of NK1K better than the carbon fiber of Wilier Zero.6?

[kgt]

I know that the Bond is not made in Italy. It is made in Bosnia. Now I have the new Wilier Zero.7.

It is not that stiff and previous version had much criticism for a not that good front end.

what do you mean? I can not translate this. I love the zero.7 /zero.6 for the geometry and for the integrated fork in ultralight frame. So don'like me the Colnago bike. Is the carbon fiber of NK1K better than the carbon fiber of Wilier Zero.6?

Since last year a part of the production is taking place in Bosnia. It's not just the Bond, some Logos, RB1000s and RB800s as well.
"The heart of the production is in Verona and the supply chain is located between Padua, Florence and Pisa. A part of the production is realized in the new, hypertechnological Cipollini factory in Kotor Varos (Bosnia), also under the leadership of Italian technicians and craftsmen."

Wilier zero.7 is not that stiff. That's what most reviewers say. But if you already have the 0.7 then you know what to expect. 0.6 is practically the same bike with a higher carbon quality "A new carbon fibre called DIALED™, produced by Mitsubishi Japan".
https://www.mrc.co.jp/pyrofil/english/p ... repreg.pdf

NK1K is a totally different frame than 0.6. You have to focus on what suits you the best...

[REDUTOPIA]

Very thanks.
In the pdf I don't find anything about the DIALED fiber.

But I have the impression that the carbon fiber of Cipollini NK1K is better than that of the 06.

[joepac]

Scott is a 950g frame vs. nk1k is 1050g not painted... How is this even a question? The Scott has tested aero credentials vs. none on the Cipo.

Scott is a normal name and Cipollini is synonymous with narcissistic douche bag (we can stick with "stronzo" since you're Italian)... It's like the Trump brand of bikes. As annoying as Colnagos are at least they have some history/ aren't associated with a tool like Cipo.

[REDUTOPIA]

Scott Foil is a beautiful bike but I do not like this how it fits with me because I don't want spend much money (here the kit Foil Hmx has list a price of almost 4000 Euros) and then I need to put a little stem of 9cm.
its geometry is not ideal for me.

So even because the carbon fiber of Wilier 06 is better than Foil HMX, I would consider mainly the Cipollini NK1k and the Wilier 06.

However the look of Cipollini NK1k, its exclusivity, the hope that it will probably remain for a more long time as a top end bike of MCipollini (than the Wilier 06), the 100% Italian manufacturing and maybe a carbon fiber better also than Wilier 06 lead me to prefer this.

I have already the New Wilier Zero.7 and I love its look and maybe for this I like the Wilier Zero.6. In this case I will change only the carbon fiber and the painting (I will buy a new complete bike). I think always this are something importants.

[Kayrehn]

Seems like you didn't actually have to start this thread since you answered your original post's question here. Have fun with the NK1K. (thread closed)

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