Cassette durability: Dura Ace / Red / Super Record

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prendrefeu
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by prendrefeu

fromtrektocolnago wrote:In the real world the few grams won't be noticed.


Ummm... real world is not your feelings. You may not feel a difference, but (like all things quantifiable), a few grams does make an actual difference, no matter how minute.
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RussellS
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by RussellS

prendrefeu wrote:
jeffy wrote:Yes, even those 10 speed drivetrains were interchangeable. How do you think neutral wheel service worked so well for so many decades of professional racing?


Back in the olden times the support car mechanics just jumped out of the car with one front wheel and one rear wheel. And changed the one that was flat or damaged. With the change from friction to index shifting in the 1980s, I would guess the neutral support car mechanics jumped from the car carrying one Campagnolo rear wheel, one Shimano rear wheel, and one front wheel. Put both rear wheels in the left hand maybe. Guessing they had a list of teams in the car and would see the jersey and look at their list and see which brand was needed. So they could just take one rear and one front. Or know which rear wheel they needed if taking both. Probably always put the Shimano on the outside, or other way. Always the same so they knew exactly which one they were getting. Modern day races almost everyone is Shimano or SRAM and only one or two teams have Campagnolo. So even easier today. And coming up behind the stopped rider they can easily see the jersey and know which team it is. Then check the chart in their car easily to see if Shimano or Campagnolo. And with just one or two Campagnolo teams, just have big pictures of the Campagnolo teams and if it is not one of them, automatically grab Shimano spare wheel. Its very easy for neutral support mechanics to change rear wheels very quickly.

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pdlpsher1
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by pdlpsher1

Hi Guys,

Currently I have Di2 9070. I took the advice from others and bought a Sram 1190 XDome cassette 11-28. I'm running into shifting problems I didn't have before. The largest cog (28) on the Sram is thicker than the rest due to its aluminum construction. The Di2 RD has a difficulty lifting the chain on to the largest cog. This happens whether the chain is on the small or large chain ring up front. The shifting is fine on all other gears. The only way I find to sort of make it work is to adjust the RD so that it's closer to the wheel (by about three clicks from normal). This seems to have fixed the problem however now the cassette makes a lot of noise since the chain isn't perfectly in alignment with the cassette. IMHO Sram should have made the largest cog out of titanium or steel, and at the normal thickness. I wonder how the cassette will work on a Red 22 since the RD would seem to have the same issue (i.e. lifting the chain onto a thick cog).

I've checked the RD alignment and it's perfect.

I have heard mostly positive reviews on the XDome when used in conjunction with Di2. However I do recall several people reported the same or similar problem as mine. Should I sell the XDome at a loss and just stick with Dura Ace? I'm open to suggestions. Thanks in advance.

Delorre
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by Delorre

pdlpsher1 wrote: I'm open to suggestions. Thanks in advance.


Have you tried to adjust the upper limit screw a bit, in order to allow the RD to go closer the the spokes? I've set up my Di2 a little to long ago to remember the exact effect is this adjustment, but worth a try :wink:

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pdlpsher1
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by pdlpsher1

The limit screw is backed out all the way. The RD moves a fixed amount and I don't know a way to make the RD move further in.


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MoreRideTime
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by MoreRideTime

@pdlpsher1 You could try placing a thin shim behind the cassette.

fromtrektocolnago
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by fromtrektocolnago

very satisfied with the ultegra cassette. no issues and a great product.
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pdlpsher1
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by pdlpsher1

MoreRideTime wrote:@pdlpsher1 You could try placing a thin shim behind the cassette.


Yes, I did try that too! I have a 1mm spacer but to my surprise and disappointment the 11th cog will not engage the freehub spline with the 1mm spacer. For some reason the 11th cog barely catches the spline without the spacer. With the 1mm space in the 11th cog is in free rotation. The wheel is a Shimano Dura Ace 9000 C50 clincher with the titanium freehub. So it appears the tolerances on the 11-speed system are very tight and sensitive change/modification.

Today I went on a 45 mi ride with 5,000' of climbing on the new XDome cassette. Now I find out that the chain refuses to drop down on the 11th cog about 50% of the time. This makes sense since I had to adjust the RD inward towards the wheel so that the chain would catch on the 28 cog. So now effectively I only have a 10-speed system (12-28). I cannot reliably use the 11th cog. If I adjust the RD property it cannot shift onto the 28 cog. The only part that is different now is the cassette. Everything else is the same and the RD alignment is spot on. I never had any issues with the Dura Ace cassette before. I must conclude that the XDome is not compatible with Di2. I'm disappointed.

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pdlpsher1
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by pdlpsher1

fromtrektocolnago wrote:very satisfied with the ultegra cassette. no issues and a great product.


The Ultegra 11-28 cassette has a major flaw. It's missing a 16 tooth cog. I find that having a bigger jump in ratio on the lower gears is better than missing the 16 tooth cog. I went from Dura Ace 12-28 to XDome 11-28 and I like the XDome wide ratio on the lower gears better. I end up shifting less on the climbs. I'd like to keep the XDome due to the superior gear ratio if I can remedy the shifting issue.

Ultegra
11-28: 11-12-13-14-15-17-19-21-23-25-28

XDome
11-28: 11-12-13-14-15-16-17-19-22-25-28

spdntrxi
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by spdntrxi

I use a variety of XG1190s with Di2.. 11-26 11-28 and 11-30... All gears work fine but I occasionally get little noise in the easier gears (but not the easiest) for example with an 11-28...I'd get a little noise in the 22 and 25 (mostly the 25). I can adjust it out, but then I get noise in the 12 or 13. My 11-26 is the worst, followed by my 28 and 30T which are not that bad at all.
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pdlpsher1
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by pdlpsher1

It appears that the Shimano ETube software can allow for customized adjustments on the RD. I wanted to try it last night however my charger interface (SM-BCR2) cannot be recognized by my PC as a USB device. Hence I cannot communicate to the Di2 system via my PC. Time to call Shimano tomorrow. Ughhhhh!

The 28-tooth cog experiences a wide chain angle all of the time. It's makes better sense to have a thinner cog than a wide cog. Extreme chain angle and a wide cog is a poor combination. The thinner 28-tooth cog on my Shimano cassette never gave me any issues.

MoreRideTime
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by MoreRideTime

@pdlpusher1 Well that sucks. I haven't had to use the shim trick on a Shimano wheel but did use such a trick with a Mavic wheel. I ended up using 1 or 2 very thin spacers (I think they were headset spacers actually). Do you have access to another of the SRAM cassette to try? Perhaps the one you have is slightly mis-manufactured.

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pdlpsher1
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by pdlpsher1

MoreRideTime wrote:@pdlpusher1 Well that sucks. I haven't had to use the shim trick on a Shimano wheel but did use such a trick with a Mavic wheel. I ended up using 1 or 2 very thin spacers (I think they were headset spacers actually). Do you have access to another of the SRAM cassette to try? Perhaps the one you have is slightly mis-manufactured.


Unfortunately I don't have a second Sram cassette to try. At this point I'm banking on the Shimano ETube customization (to overshift on the 28-tooth cog). I have to call Shimano tomorrow to figure out my problem connecting Di2 to my PC.

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pdlpsher1
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by pdlpsher1

I managed to connect Di2 to my PC. It turns out there's no way to customize the shift spacing or RD limit for the 28-tooth cog. I have a new Dura Ace asymmetric chain in hand. Currently I have the older symmetrical chain on the bike. I plan to put on a new chain, make it two links longer, and put on some new pulleys to see if it will help.

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spdntrxi
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by spdntrxi

Huh^. I can use 30t on my bike with 9070.. Just a b screw adjustment. My wife's madone just handles a 32t actually.. At the extremes It becames frame / hanger dependent .


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