Best value SRAM Red/Force/Rival groupset mix?
Moderator: robbosmans
Hey WW,
Hoping you experts can help with the best performance/value/weight combo from SRAM to put on my next build. I remember reading that Red22 BB30 crank is the lightest weight option so it would be worth spending extra here. My budget is probably around Force-Ultegra 6800 prices.
This is what I'm thinking:
SL- Rival. Better to spend extra on Force?
FC- Red22 BB30 with Praxis rings 52/36 (this still the light-weigh winning combo?)
FD- Red22 (my thinking is SRAM front shifting ain't great, so go for the best just in case)
RD- Force22
CS- Ultegra 6800
CH- Shimano DA perhaps?
Cheers guys
Hoping you experts can help with the best performance/value/weight combo from SRAM to put on my next build. I remember reading that Red22 BB30 crank is the lightest weight option so it would be worth spending extra here. My budget is probably around Force-Ultegra 6800 prices.
This is what I'm thinking:
SL- Rival. Better to spend extra on Force?
FC- Red22 BB30 with Praxis rings 52/36 (this still the light-weigh winning combo?)
FD- Red22 (my thinking is SRAM front shifting ain't great, so go for the best just in case)
RD- Force22
CS- Ultegra 6800
CH- Shimano DA perhaps?
Cheers guys
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Art's cyclery has a good blog on this, which I agree with.
Shifters: Force
Cranks: Red
FD: Force - no need to shell out for red unless weight is a concern.
Brakes: Rival/Red depending on budget
RD: Rival
They recommend a Force chain and cassette, but the shimano ones will do the trick.
http://blog.artscyclery.com/road/sram-r ... our-money/
Shifters: Force
Cranks: Red
FD: Force - no need to shell out for red unless weight is a concern.
Brakes: Rival/Red depending on budget
RD: Rival
They recommend a Force chain and cassette, but the shimano ones will do the trick.
http://blog.artscyclery.com/road/sram-r ... our-money/
I write the weightweenies blog, hope you like it
Disclosure: I'm sponsored by Velocite, but I do give my honest opinion about them (I'm endorsed to race their bikes, not say nice things about them)
Disclosure: I'm sponsored by Velocite, but I do give my honest opinion about them (I'm endorsed to race their bikes, not say nice things about them)
I can't figure out all of your abbreviations so these would be my recs, staying within SRAM lineup:
FD: Force22
RD: Force22
Crankset: Red22
Shifters: Force22
Brakes: Red22 (supposedly better, but Force works just fine)
Chain: Red22 is actually cheaper than PC1170 much of the time
Cassette: PG1170
Or:
http://blog.artscyclery.com/road/sram-r ... our-money/
EDIT: Beaten!
FD: Force22
RD: Force22
Crankset: Red22
Shifters: Force22
Brakes: Red22 (supposedly better, but Force works just fine)
Chain: Red22 is actually cheaper than PC1170 much of the time
Cassette: PG1170
Or:
http://blog.artscyclery.com/road/sram-r ... our-money/
EDIT: Beaten!
istigatrice wrote:http://blog.artscyclery.com/road/sram-r ... our-money/
Brilliant, thanks guys. I'll have a read.
Interesting how the RD doesn't matter as much.
I'm a fan of this kind of mix.
My choice:
-Shifters: Force
-FD: Red
-RD: Force (may be upgraded with ceramic jockey wheels if you need performance)
-crank: have not tested but you may consider the red for super lightweight at a good price, or a stiffer product of another brand if stiffness is important. My choice would go to the red for mountain use.
-BB: red (the ceramic is gorgeous)
-chain: Red (but check X11SL, it's lighter and shifting is great, can be found around $37)
-cassette: force for training, red for competition (there is a big gap of weight and price on this item).
-brakes: a static part with good stopping power from Rival to Red. It'll depend on your remaining budget. I find the Red by far above the Dura Ace...
My choice:
-Shifters: Force
-FD: Red
-RD: Force (may be upgraded with ceramic jockey wheels if you need performance)
-crank: have not tested but you may consider the red for super lightweight at a good price, or a stiffer product of another brand if stiffness is important. My choice would go to the red for mountain use.
-BB: red (the ceramic is gorgeous)
-chain: Red (but check X11SL, it's lighter and shifting is great, can be found around $37)
-cassette: force for training, red for competition (there is a big gap of weight and price on this item).
-brakes: a static part with good stopping power from Rival to Red. It'll depend on your remaining budget. I find the Red by far above the Dura Ace...
I have 3 bikes with SRAM 22 mixes.
* I run Rival 22 and Force 22 Double Taps, they work&feel -exactly- the same except for the shift levers on the Rivals feeling colder in winter I got Rival for the Ti build because I'd rather spend the money elsewhere.
* I run Red 10s (old), Red 10s (new), and X0 10s non-Type2 rear derailleurs. Red is the lightest, and the new 10s short RD will work work with 32t cogs, the old short one only goes to 26 and needs all kind of tricks to shift well on an 11-28cassette. The Wifli Force 22 rear derailleur worked exactly the same as the new Red 10s one.
* You can use any YAW FD, weight and functionality differences are minimal, 10 and 11s work the same on my 11s bikes. These need to be set up EXACTLY as the instructions say. BTW I find the instruction sheet -incredibly- badly designed. There are online instructions that contain all you need to know in 2 paragraphs and 3 pictures.
* You can use any 10 and 11s cranks you want. The newer hollow Red cranks are the best price/performance, but they have the hidden bolt, which can be problematic with some rings. Force 22 cranks look better IMO, and have the removable spider which is cool for mods like direct mount rinds. Force 22 aren't really light though.
* I run Ciamillo 0G brakes, Force 22 brakes and TRP Mini Vs. All slow me down enough. SRAM brakes are very powerful and not -that- heavy.
* I run Dura Ace 11s chains on 2 bikes, and will try a black KMC on the Ti build. DAs last about 5000km for me and shift just fine.
* I now run Shimano latest gen polymer coated cables (Ultegra level) on 2 bikes - very good, especially for bar&frame internal routing and will be trying Jagwire top-end stuff for the new bike.
* I use Shimano DA bottom brackets with GXP adaptors. Weighs 2/3 of SRAM and lasts fine so far. GXP bearings love to seize up after winter rides for me.
* The Red cassette is needed for a light build. However, it's really expensive and doesn't shift as well as others. Not a real problem though.
* I run Rival 22 and Force 22 Double Taps, they work&feel -exactly- the same except for the shift levers on the Rivals feeling colder in winter I got Rival for the Ti build because I'd rather spend the money elsewhere.
* I run Red 10s (old), Red 10s (new), and X0 10s non-Type2 rear derailleurs. Red is the lightest, and the new 10s short RD will work work with 32t cogs, the old short one only goes to 26 and needs all kind of tricks to shift well on an 11-28cassette. The Wifli Force 22 rear derailleur worked exactly the same as the new Red 10s one.
* You can use any YAW FD, weight and functionality differences are minimal, 10 and 11s work the same on my 11s bikes. These need to be set up EXACTLY as the instructions say. BTW I find the instruction sheet -incredibly- badly designed. There are online instructions that contain all you need to know in 2 paragraphs and 3 pictures.
* You can use any 10 and 11s cranks you want. The newer hollow Red cranks are the best price/performance, but they have the hidden bolt, which can be problematic with some rings. Force 22 cranks look better IMO, and have the removable spider which is cool for mods like direct mount rinds. Force 22 aren't really light though.
* I run Ciamillo 0G brakes, Force 22 brakes and TRP Mini Vs. All slow me down enough. SRAM brakes are very powerful and not -that- heavy.
* I run Dura Ace 11s chains on 2 bikes, and will try a black KMC on the Ti build. DAs last about 5000km for me and shift just fine.
* I now run Shimano latest gen polymer coated cables (Ultegra level) on 2 bikes - very good, especially for bar&frame internal routing and will be trying Jagwire top-end stuff for the new bike.
* I use Shimano DA bottom brackets with GXP adaptors. Weighs 2/3 of SRAM and lasts fine so far. GXP bearings love to seize up after winter rides for me.
* The Red cassette is needed for a light build. However, it's really expensive and doesn't shift as well as others. Not a real problem though.
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For cassettes and chains, I prefer Ultegra to Force. I have found the Ultegra performs better than Force. That said, I do very much like Red chains and cassettes, but if you are looking for cost savings, that's a good way to go.
Also, if you're on a budget, Rival brakes are probably the best way to go.
Also, if you're on a budget, Rival brakes are probably the best way to go.
Agreed, except for Red, Shimano cassettes are lighter and cheaper than their Sram counterparts.
DA is cheaper too, but likes to break and is heavier.
Weights from scale shots, own and internet:
5800 11-32 313g
5800 11-28 277g
6800 11-32 286g
6800 11-28 247g
1170 11-32 302g
1170 11-26 245g
1170 11-28 258g
1170 11-36 366g
1190 11-28 178g
1190 11-26 155g
Got a broken DA 11-28 at home I can weigh if anyone need it
DA is cheaper too, but likes to break and is heavier.
Weights from scale shots, own and internet:
5800 11-32 313g
5800 11-28 277g
6800 11-32 286g
6800 11-28 247g
1170 11-32 302g
1170 11-26 245g
1170 11-28 258g
1170 11-36 366g
1190 11-28 178g
1190 11-26 155g
Got a broken DA 11-28 at home I can weigh if anyone need it
Can't add too much. I have experience with various levels of Campagnolo and Shimano. Not SRAM. Hate SRAM shifting.
Shift levers - I try to go for the best if possible. Maybe its all mental, but I like the highest shifter.
Both Derailleurs - They all work great. Cheapest.
Crank - Cheap or light. Your choice. All work the same. Maybe the rings affect shifting, but not the crank arms.
Cassette - Cheap or light. Your choice. All work the same.
Chain - Shimano. Any one. Why even consider a chance with a lesser chain?
Shift levers - I try to go for the best if possible. Maybe its all mental, but I like the highest shifter.
Both Derailleurs - They all work great. Cheapest.
Crank - Cheap or light. Your choice. All work the same. Maybe the rings affect shifting, but not the crank arms.
Cassette - Cheap or light. Your choice. All work the same.
Chain - Shimano. Any one. Why even consider a chance with a lesser chain?
My Litespeed C1R is a Red/Force 22 Mix with DA-chain. I did some gram per $ calculations and at the time this turned out to be the most bang for the buck:
Shifters: Red
Crank: Red
BB: Red
FD: Force
RD: Force
Cassette: Force (Red for competitions)
Brakes: Force
Shifters: Red
Crank: Red
BB: Red
FD: Force
RD: Force
Cassette: Force (Red for competitions)
Brakes: Force
2023 Wilier Rave SLR
2022 Wilier Filante SLR
2021 Cannondale Scalpel Carbon 2
2022 Wilier Filante SLR
2021 Cannondale Scalpel Carbon 2
Crank: Red22 seems like a clear weight/value winner
IMO the exogram chainrings work just slightly enough better to justify the extra weight.
After that, it is a tough call, because my experience is that all other Shimano (ultegra or DA) drivetrain parts work just a little smoother/faster/quieter/more reliably than SRAM Red or Force
The Yaw FD is nice, but Shimano is certainly just as good, and whether you need extra adjuster clicks or not you can either use them or shift through them on Shimano
Even if you go with SRAM shifters and derailleurs, a shimano cassette and chain will still work better on the setup.
That all being said, I have one bike with all SRAM Red, except a Force WiFli RD, and everything has worked acceptably smoothly and reliably. So I don't think you could really go wrong with any of them.
IMO the exogram chainrings work just slightly enough better to justify the extra weight.
After that, it is a tough call, because my experience is that all other Shimano (ultegra or DA) drivetrain parts work just a little smoother/faster/quieter/more reliably than SRAM Red or Force
The Yaw FD is nice, but Shimano is certainly just as good, and whether you need extra adjuster clicks or not you can either use them or shift through them on Shimano
Even if you go with SRAM shifters and derailleurs, a shimano cassette and chain will still work better on the setup.
That all being said, I have one bike with all SRAM Red, except a Force WiFli RD, and everything has worked acceptably smoothly and reliably. So I don't think you could really go wrong with any of them.
I used the info here to help with the custom build and below is what I bought based on the delta of gram per dollar:
Shifts&rails - Rival 22, medium RD
crank- Red GXP
brakes- TRP R920
chain- 5800 chain
cassette- 11-32 5800
I avoided the CNC ebay brakes for under $100, just my preference as I don't race and need to save 25g, I need to stop when I want to stop. I will probably go with the 6800 chain (and cassette) if the price is right, but I have this one as backup for my current ride.
Thanks to all for the guidance!
Shifts&rails - Rival 22, medium RD
crank- Red GXP
brakes- TRP R920
chain- 5800 chain
cassette- 11-32 5800
I avoided the CNC ebay brakes for under $100, just my preference as I don't race and need to save 25g, I need to stop when I want to stop. I will probably go with the 6800 chain (and cassette) if the price is right, but I have this one as backup for my current ride.
Thanks to all for the guidance!
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