TOUR MAG AERO TEST 2016

[AZK]

What we also know is that all the 2016 Grand Tours were won on non aero bikes...

I used the Grand Tour comparison to illustrate how crucial seconds are after 3500km. So for a bike to give the same advantage over 3hrs is monumental. Yes GC riders never spend 3 hours on the front but if we are comparing just the machines themselves the gains are real and relevant to us mere mortals.

WW Zeitgeist
Suggest a stem that saves 10 grams and you're a hero
Suggest anything aero and everyone looses their damn minds !

[kgt]

But you know that's because weight is not debatable at all while aero claims definitely are.

[BeeSeeBee]

Since kgt always does a better job to discredit himself than anyone else (thanks for the help sawyer) I'll just continue to let him do it. kgt, although the last two times didn't work out so well for you, do you have any additional information/data you'd like to add to the discussion?

edit: I forgot we already went over the F8=aero frame with kgt do you not process anything you read in these threads?

[arthurf]

Froome's Pina is very explicitly an aero frame ... the aero R&D and performance is a core message of the marketing for the Dogma

From the Dogma page on Pina's site...

"Pinarello LAB, TEAM SKY and JAGUAR created a working group where everyone brought his decisive contribution.

Team SKY with feedback from its athletes, Jaguar the Aerodynamics concerns CFD and Wind Tunnel testing, Pinarello LAB for cycling part, structural study and design. This synergy brought to light the Dogma F8.

“DOGMA F8 achieves new significant numerical data, but more importantly, maintains the unique driving feeling, which made previous Pinarello Dogma bikes unbeatable. Whoever rides the new F8 DOGMA, will immediately perceive the extraordinary work done by our team, in creating a streamlined and aerodynamic bike without losing the typical characteristics of DOGMA: a powerful and responsive bike for every track. “

And likewise, NQ's Ultimate... the aero performance is a core message of the marketing for that frame too ... in fact it's the key differentiator vs the previous iteration

See how pronounced aerodynamic performance and design considerations are in the "Frame Highlights" section on Canyon's Ultimate page ...

https://www.canyon.com/en-gb/road/ultim ... 0-ltd.html


Vs a round tube bike, both are aero frames ...

Nibali yes I'll give you that ... non-aero frame!

On more important matters, Nibali's shoes and socks look ridiculous. Looks like he's cycled to work, put on his work shoes and then realised he's forgotten dark socks for the day

Remember that Kruijswijk lead the Giro until stage 19 choosing to ride the aero Oltre over the Specialissima. Or did Kruijswijk crash because he wasn't comfortable on the bike? Or was it the additional speed attributed to the aero properties that caused him to crash?

[kgt]

Always touched by my devoted followers... Thanks guys.

[sawyer]

Froome's Pina is very explicitly an aero frame ... the aero R&D and performance is a core message of the marketing for the Dogma

From the Dogma page on Pina's site...

"Pinarello LAB, TEAM SKY and JAGUAR created a working group where everyone brought his decisive contribution.

Team SKY with feedback from its athletes, Jaguar the Aerodynamics concerns CFD and Wind Tunnel testing, Pinarello LAB for cycling part, structural study and design. This synergy brought to light the Dogma F8.

“DOGMA F8 achieves new significant numerical data, but more importantly, maintains the unique driving feeling, which made previous Pinarello Dogma bikes unbeatable. Whoever rides the new F8 DOGMA, will immediately perceive the extraordinary work done by our team, in creating a streamlined and aerodynamic bike without losing the typical characteristics of DOGMA: a powerful and responsive bike for every track. “

And likewise, NQ's Ultimate... the aero performance is a core message of the marketing for that frame too ... in fact it's the key differentiator vs the previous iteration

See how pronounced aerodynamic performance and design considerations are in the "Frame Highlights" section on Canyon's Ultimate page ...

https://www.canyon.com/en-gb/road/ultim ... 0-ltd.html


Vs a round tube bike, both are aero frames ...

Nibali yes I'll give you that ... non-aero frame!

On more important matters, Nibali's shoes and socks look ridiculous. Looks like he's cycled to work, put on his work shoes and then realised he's forgotten dark socks for the day

Remember that Kruijswijk lead the Giro until stage 19 choosing to ride the aero Oltre over the Specialissima. Or did Kruijswijk crash because he wasn't comfortable on the bike? Or was it the additional speed attributed to the aero properties that caused him to crash?

Sir, you rather miss the point ... it was about who won, not who didn't win ...

[cyclespeed]

Surely the fact that the Tour de France Top 10 are all so close to each other after about 90 hours of riding discredits somewhat the aero frame theory.

Because if some of the marketing is to be believed, then there are 'minutes' on offer when riding for an hour at 40km/h on an aero frame.

So even if we say only 5 seconds advantage per hour, that would still be 450 seconds or 7 and a half minutes over the whole Tour. I don't see anyone gaining that kind of advantage....?

[kgt]

cyclespeed why do you spoil their "pure data" with your common sense? lol

[Epic-o]

Cyclespeed and kgt, please read this attentively:

The dynamics of road racing and standalone riding are very different. In road racing, the effects of drafting mean that the superior aerodynamic properties of a given setup do not translate into time differences between riders computed from CdA-power-time savings rules of thumb that are only applicable in standalone conditions.

Instead, when riding in the pack the reduced power expenditure of aerodynamic setups mainly results in less fatigue in those decisive moments at the end of a stage. Try riding at full gas during 5km after having spent 1350Wh (270W during 5h) vs 1200Wh (240W during 5h) and time the differences. This, together with the possibility to go faster for a given power output in those decisive moments, means that using an aerodynamic bike in racing is a no brainer to me.

I think you two are confusing "common sense" with the misunderstanding of the circumstances under which a given time saving figure has been computed.

Hope this has cleared it for you.

[kgt]

Thanks for your clarification but I already know that. I still find common sense more convincing.

[wingguy]

So even if we say only 5 seconds advantage per hour, that would still be 450 seconds or 7 and a half minutes over the whole Tour. I don't see anyone gaining that kind of advantage....?

If you have ever watched or participated in a bunch race then you know why your argument is stupid.

So why say it?

[wingguy]

Thanks for your clarification but I already know that. I still find common sense more convincing.

It's 'common sense' to think that if someone can't gradually ride of the front of the peloton and gain 20 seconds on a flat stage then aero frames don't work?

WTF is common about that sense?

[Epic-o]

Thanks for your clarification but I already know that. I still find common sense more convincing.

I suppose that you also think that the Earth is flat. This is what common sense indicates.

Good luck with your common sense.

[LetsRide]

Full test conditions of Tour Mag


Drafting gives a huge aero gain, 30-40% power saved. That's a proof why aero is so important to save energy for all GC. For TT stages when drafting is not allowed, you can see all riders go with full aero equipment they can find.

[Calnago]

Definitely for TT's and individual timed efforts, aero is king. But in a group, all you have to do on your heavy, yet beautiful, round tubed bike is sit behind the aero guy blazing a trail out front, because no matter how aero his bike is, the aero benefit you get from sitting on his wheel vastly dwarfs his aero bike effect. And they get so angry when you do that... almost makes it fun. "C'mon buddy, show me what that aero bike can do... I'll just sit here and try to hang on... ha ha ".