Sram Red etap vs Shimano Di2....

[Ahillock]

I love my SRAM mechanical, but just based on principle I'm not sure I could ever or would ever buy SRAM eTap. Least we ever forget.

The Assignment: SRAM wants your ideas on how to position against electronic shifting in the consciousness of the cycling enthusiast.

The Situation: A couple years ago, Shimano finally cracked an electronic-shifting offering for Dura-Ace - their top road group. Calling it “Di2,” this battery-powered, push-button shifting solution utilized mostly standard Dura-Ace componentry, but added all necessary auxillary power and servo functionality to produce an electronically activated, front and rear shifting component group that first became adopted by top pros, and has now become Shimano’s top-tier road component offering. Naysayers have been squelched, due to Di2’s proven performance and reliability on ProTour Shimano teams and adoption by professional racers/hardcore enthusiasts/bike builders. Di2 has taken the myth and hope of electronic shifting from the yesteryear’s failed attempts and made it real, putting it smack into the spotlight as a dreambike component group. On top of that, it simplifies initial install and self-regulates to help avoid return trips to a mechanic. Though these features come at a high price and add some extra weight (battery), their “set-up and forget” and “ease of use” benefits are also new to drive train products. So why doesn’t SRAM have an electronic group? Is SRAM going to jump in? Bike geeks and the bike industry at large all want to know. And it’s time SRAM responded. SRAM has not jumped into the electronic-shifting game because SRAM believes the bicycle is a pure, leg and lung-powered expression of utter simplicity and grace. And using a battery to power an essential part of the experience just isn’t right. Or necessary. Especially because the real performance benefits of electronic shifting really don’t exist. A rider still has to think about shifting and press on something. The only difference with electronic is you press a button instead of a shift-lever. It takes the same energy and thought. Furthermore, electronic shifting is so specialized and boutique that if you break it, you can’t always get service or replacement. Instead of adding benefit, all it really adds is a layer between you and the bicycle. An insulated, muffling, experience-robbing layer of “Rolls-Royce automatic cushiness” – when the essence of cycling has always been about the “Culture of Mechanical” – AKA the raw, tactile connection of the human animal to a beautiful, efficient, analog machine. So in short, SRAM believes its energy can be better spent in refining and moving forward simplicity and purity. Which is mechanical shifting. And SRAM believes the public’s energy – and money – is better spent in mechanical as well. Leaving room in the budget for true performance upgrades such as frame choices, wheels, tires, etc.

The Opportunity: Create a groundswell against electronic shifting by focusing on the purity and simplicity of mechanical shifting. In the process, SRAM can take the higher ground and position Di2 for what it is: Glitzy, geeky, wimpy and free of REAL benefits. Show the world that SRAM is being smart and they should be too. Write ads. Think up web films. Think up stunts and events. Promotions, whatever. Consider using SRAM’s athletes. Consider leveraging SRAM’s history of simplicity. Craft SRAM’s response. - See more at: http://303cycling.com/Help-SRAM-Communi ... 6ffAP.dpuf

[oldnslow2]

I love my SRAM mechanical, but just based on principle I'm not sure I could ever or would ever buy SRAM eTap. Least we ever forget.

The Assignment: SRAM wants your ideas on how to position against electronic shifting in the consciousness of the cycling enthusiast.

The Situation: A couple years ago, Shimano finally cracked an electronic-shifting offering for Dura-Ace - their top road group. Calling it “Di2,” this battery-powered, push-button shifting solution utilized mostly standard Dura-Ace componentry, but added all necessary auxillary power and servo functionality to produce an electronically activated, front and rear shifting component group that first became adopted by top pros, and has now become Shimano’s top-tier road component offering. Naysayers have been squelched, due to Di2’s proven performance and reliability on ProTour Shimano teams and adoption by professional racers/hardcore enthusiasts/bike builders. Di2 has taken the myth and hope of electronic shifting from the yesteryear’s failed attempts and made it real, putting it smack into the spotlight as a dreambike component group. On top of that, it simplifies initial install and self-regulates to help avoid return trips to a mechanic. Though these features come at a high price and add some extra weight (battery), their “set-up and forget” and “ease of use” benefits are also new to drive train products. So why doesn’t SRAM have an electronic group? Is SRAM going to jump in? Bike geeks and the bike industry at large all want to know. And it’s time SRAM responded. SRAM has not jumped into the electronic-shifting game because SRAM believes the bicycle is a pure, leg and lung-powered expression of utter simplicity and grace. And using a battery to power an essential part of the experience just isn’t right. Or necessary. Especially because the real performance benefits of electronic shifting really don’t exist. A rider still has to think about shifting and press on something. The only difference with electronic is you press a button instead of a shift-lever. It takes the same energy and thought. Furthermore, electronic shifting is so specialized and boutique that if you break it, you can’t always get service or replacement. Instead of adding benefit, all it really adds is a layer between you and the bicycle. An insulated, muffling, experience-robbing layer of “Rolls-Royce automatic cushiness” – when the essence of cycling has always been about the “Culture of Mechanical” – AKA the raw, tactile connection of the human animal to a beautiful, efficient, analog machine. So in short, SRAM believes its energy can be better spent in refining and moving forward simplicity and purity. Which is mechanical shifting. And SRAM believes the public’s energy – and money – is better spent in mechanical as well. Leaving room in the budget for true performance upgrades such as frame choices, wheels, tires, etc.

The Opportunity: Create a groundswell against electronic shifting by focusing on the purity and simplicity of mechanical shifting. In the process, SRAM can take the higher ground and position Di2 for what it is: Glitzy, geeky, wimpy and free of REAL benefits. Show the world that SRAM is being smart and they should be too. Write ads. Think up web films. Think up stunts and events. Promotions, whatever. Consider using SRAM’s athletes. Consider leveraging SRAM’s history of simplicity. Craft SRAM’s response. - See more at: http://303cycling.com/Help-SRAM-Communi ... 6ffAP.dpuf

I guess the success of Di2 changed their mind.

Last year I built a custom Trek Emonda when picking a groupset I went with Sram Red mechanical because I didn't like the Shimano shifters. I thought about Di2 but thought why would i want electronic.....

Well one year later I upgraded to eTap and love it.

Just like Donald Trump, i can change my mind and so can Sram.

[nemeseri]

-I feel eTap's front shifting is faster and better. It might not be faster, but I definitely like it more under load.

That's a bold statement. What kind of chainrings / cranks you are on? My main concern with etap is the fear of having worse front shifting than with DA.

[KWalker]

used with both Praxis and S-Works rings. Its a subtle difference and I would describe it as though I felt DA would force the chain over very abruptly whereas with eTap it seems to glide quickly. I rode di2 on two bikes for a really long time with multiple ring types. I will say that both front shifting is fantastic, even if I prefer eTap di2 is still amazing and the difference is small, but noticeable. As I noted in the other eTap thread it takes some experimentation with how you press the paddles to get front/rear simultaneous shifting the fastest, but when you do it reminds me of the Campy "dump" or "jump" where you can quickly hit the thumb paddles or levers and switch rings and cogs at once and end up in the perfect gear.

I also like the Yaw/autotrim.

[Junior7]

Difficult to give an opinion, what do you want?

1 - If money is no problem: Campagnolo Super Record EPS

2 - If you want the best without spending a lot: Dura Ace Di2

3 - The best cost-benefit: Ultegra Di2

[bearsdidit]

From a shifting and ergonomic perspective, I'm still a huge fan of DA Di2. With that being said, my new bike will have ETap on it.

While I love the new Campy mechanical groups but I feel that EPS is a huge waste of money. I'm not a big of how noisy it can be when you're close to Big/Big. I know it's totally against everything Campy, but most people, including myself, cross chain when necessary.

[XCProMD]

If eTap can give the tactile feeling of EPS I will definitely pull the trigger.

Then I'll definitely say goodbye to Di2.

[fromtrektocolnago]

Not having owned either but reading the literature, seems to me the advantage in SRAM E-tap is for those bike owners who don't have bikes designed for EPS, otherwise what difference does having a wire or not having a wire make? Etap is reported to shift slower, SRAM doesn't yet support disc. I get why OEM would like E-tap, it takes less time to install but for the bike owner I don't get it. At the end of day it should offer superior shifting. It doesn't sound like it does that.

[bearsdidit]

Not having owned either but reading the literature, seems to me the advantage in SRAM E-tap is for those bike owners who don't have bikes designed for EPS, otherwise what difference does having a wire or not having a wire make? Etap is reported to shift slower, SRAM doesn't yet support disc. I get why OEM would like E-tap, it takes less time to install but for the bike owner I don't get it. At the end of day it should offer superior shifting. It doesn't sound like it does that.

When I rode Etap, it "seemed" slower but we're talking milliseconds compared to Di2. IIRC, SRAM is currently working on ETap Hydro. IMO, at the high end of things, they're all pretty comparable. It really comes personal preference and ergonomics. My new road bike will have ETap while my new gravel bike will have Di2/XTR.

[dadoflam08]

[quote="flafonta"]I am waiting for eTap, although I know the risks with new innovations. But I know they will stand by their new product.
quote]

I'm not sure I would totally rely on that. I was an early Mk1 Red user and noticed that within 12 months SRAM had changed the cassette and chain (excessively noisy) and later the issues with flexible chainrings and FD (chain drops/sensitive setup) were eventually addressed with updated versions.
In each instance there was no admission of an issue and the new items were issued without change of graphics, serial no etc as a seamless progressive upgrade process. I am not across the SRAM Mk1 hydraulic brakes issue but I understand it was again an instance of a slightly immature product being brought to market before all aspects had been fully refined.
SRAM is one organisation I would definitely wait until the official Mk2 version comes out before buying.

Even as a committed mechanical Campy user I think Di2 is definitely the benchmark for efficiency and reliability (my Di2 groupset now sits in a box) but etap is a very cool concept if they can get it to work.

[KWalker]

Are you serious about the wires? Why would you want to run wires when you absolutely don't have to? Only slightly less annoying than running cables.

My eTap build took under 20 minutes to put everything on the bike minus bar tape. Its that easy. On lots of aero bikes even running wires still takes a lot more time and doesn't necessarily make the group perform better or worse than wireless. I wasn't all that jazzed by EPS necessarily.

[53x12]

Once a bike is setup with Di2 wires, you don't mess with it again unless you are stripping the Di2 group and selling the frameset. Otherwise, it isn't like mechanical where you are switching cables and housing every season.

Sure, eTap might save you 15-20 minutes (very easy to setup Di2 on my frames once you know what you do) on the initial setup. But lets not act like you have to build the bike all over again each and every day.

[oldnslow2]

Wires or wireless is not the reason to but a reason to but a groupset.

Some people like Campy, others like Shimano and others like Sram. Just wait until FSA releases theirs and it will be a 4 way race.

Chevy vs Ford vs Dodge... its the same.

[muntos]

DI2 setup is very easy, is not rocket science! Setup once and forget. And for people that like and enjoy to build their own bikes this DI2 setup is a part of this pleasure
What I really love about DI2 and one of the reasons I wouldn't switch to eTap is the D-fly + Dura Ace shifters + Garmin Edge combo that allows you to control your Edge directly from the hoods! Beat this SRAM !

[Jingeon]

Absolutely dura-ace di2
Shimano is definitely!!