Cannondale CAAD10 or Specialized Allez (Smartweld) ?

Back by popular demand, the general all-things Road forum!

Moderator: robbosmans

Should I go CAAD10 or Allez E5 Smartweld frame

CAAD10
39
64%
Allez E5 Smartweld
22
36%
 
Total votes: 61

User avatar
mpulsiv
Posts: 1384
Joined: Mon Mar 24, 2014 9:17 pm

by mpulsiv

luckypuncheur wrote:@donkey: The Allez doesn't have the same geometry as the current Tarmac (but as the SL3) - it is in fact taller.

And the weight claim of 1050 grams for the Allez must refer to very small frame sizes... [emoji6]


Which year Allez? Last I checked, the geometry was identical on SL4 and Allez, both 2014 model (carbon steerer introduced) S-Works Allez is ~1050 grams, standard E5 frameset is ~1235 grams with deraiuler hanger (54 cm). Cannondale claim 1050 grams. In reality, its ~1200 grams.
Racing is a three-dimensional high-speed chess game, involving hundreds of pieces on the board.

:arrow: CBA = Chronic Bike Addiction
:arrow: OCD = Obsessive Cycling Disorder

by Weenie


Visit starbike.com Online Retailer for HighEnd cycling components
Great Prices ✓    Broad Selection ✓    Worldwide Delivery ✓

www.starbike.com



User avatar
luckypuncheur
Posts: 254
Joined: Mon Oct 17, 2011 7:26 pm
Location: Germany

by luckypuncheur

Just compare the 2015 Tarmac with the 2015 Allez geo on the Specialized website and you'll notice that they're not identical.

The weights you posted are not reflecting reality either - or to which framesize are you referring to?
Get a bicycle. You will certainly not regret it, if you live.

MisterMuncher
Posts: 268
Joined: Thu Apr 11, 2013 2:15 am

by MisterMuncher

Cannondale claim 1150, not 1050. My 54, in white which is generally heaviest, came in at 1313 including bb, hanger, bolts and seat clamp. Is day the claim is accurate for a bare 54 in ano black.

Donkey

by Donkey

The two Allez frames track the geometry of the SL3. The SL4 is typically a little shorter in the headtube but all have a low fork to crown length.

For any anodized frame the weight savings are considerable relative to conventionally painted frame.

KWalker
Posts: 5722
Joined: Mon Dec 28, 2009 8:30 pm
Location: Bay Area

by KWalker

Donkey wrote:
KWalker wrote:Well, I ride about 700 hrs a year and have switched bikes a lot due to different fit permutations, sponsors, and getting deals on new gear that I want to try.

For the Allez' I had one while my SL4 was being repaired and then another as a replacement for a few months after. For the CAADs I had one in 2011, went to Specialized (Allez and SL4), then back to a 58 CAAD. After that I had a 58 SuperSix Evo that was di2 only, then got a normal 58 SuperSix Evo Hi-Mod. For most of last race season I raced a 56 SuperSix Evo Hi-mod you can find in my signature. I've additionally also tested almost every major bike from almost every major brand with the exception of BMC and Felt. I sized down to a 56, then had another 58 for part of this year and am back on a 56 Black Inc. In total I've spent 1400 hours on both frames and have raced them in literally every single type of race and I tend to race 40+ races a year. Given that my average week has 20,000 feet of climbing or more, its safe to say I've climbed a hell of a lot of miles on the frames. Ridden them on gravel roads, paved roads, around crit courses, whatever. I could paste the geo charts but that proves nothing. The CAAD 10 is a superior frame and noticeably more stiff all around. If I were on a Speci sponsored team I would ride an Allez no problem as its not necessarily a bad frame, but nothing you've mentioned is actually present in it. There are no formal tests that proves one measures any stiffer than the other, however, if you ride an Allez next to a Tarmac the difference in stiffness and lack of compliance will be very noticeable. The gap is much bigger than that between the CAAD10 and the SuperSix, which are within the margin of error depending on tire pressure and cockpit choices.



OMG the sheer numbers errors and misconceptions in your post. I've highlighted them in BOLD.
Cut short your long soap opera.

1. Least you could do is post geo charts. Geo charts alone say more than you have above.
2. Who says C10 is superior when almost the entire topic goes to agree that both the C10 and Allez hold their own in their own right. Both are alternatives to one another. You want a choice in comfort and geometry. Don't take my word for it.
3. The Allez E5 has the same stiffness as the Tarmac. It was the signature feature of the new Allez E5 along with having Tarmac geo.
4. Allez E5 is alloy and of-course the main difference to the Tarmac is it won't drown out as much high frequency vibrations. Still the Allez is a very comfortable and forgiving frame.
5. C10 and SS do have distinctive geometry.
6. Read my review above you'll see I've already covered these points.
7. If I am the troll I have yet to see one credible post from you on the subject in this entire thread. That probably makes you worse than me trolling. You are good at making st'pid assumptions tho.

Image

Image


1. I even said I could post them, but that it still doesn't make your claim that one is a "climber's frame" and the other isn't even close to true. My argument is that the differences are slight enough that it doesn't affect handling to where one somehow goes uphill faster than the other.
2. I am saying it is superior because I have had and ridden/raced both for a long time. It is my opinion, just like anything else about ride quality and is subjective but I believe well-informed given how long I have spent on both frames.
3. No it does not have the same stiffness. No data for this anywhere. As I said I had both and I felt that the Tarmac had a stiffer front triangle. Same bars, stem, wheels, etc.
4. It is not an uncomfortable frame, but not as smooth as a CAAD10. I'm not sure if its the seatstays or the seatstay/seat tube interface, but it was a noticeably more chattery on rough pavement. The CAAD10 is MUCH closer to a carbon frame, enough to where its hard to notice the difference on all but the very roughest surfaces and even then its not really obvious unless you want to find it.
5. The SS and C10 geo is within MM of each other, but yes they are known for their geo/handling.
6. Your review covers nothing.
7. You were already banned once under the name Horze: memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=57316

If you are going to troll you should at least block your IP so its not super obvious.

You are generally unhelpful and have not contributed positively to anything except for some wacky comments that are definitely troll material.
Don't take me too seriously. The only person that doesn't hate Froome.
Gramz
Failed Custom Bike

Donkey

by Donkey

Well I guess you are correct that you are st'pid.

How is blocking an IP address going to help here? Do you know what an IP is?

You don't seem to grasp the argunments here. Maybe you're not listening or can't read. You prefer to discredit others on personal terms because in the end it's the only way a loser can square himself.

User avatar
mpulsiv
Posts: 1384
Joined: Mon Mar 24, 2014 9:17 pm

by mpulsiv

Let's put arguments aside.

@KWalker
I don't question your authority but stating that CAAD10 is smoother?! I've read relevant threads about Allez and CAAD10 and first time I hear that stiffer CAAD10 offer a smoother ride. Have you tried flexing seatstays with you hand? Take both hands, wrap them around seatstays and squeeze them in. You could argue that it's not a functional test but its a simple one to see how flexible the material is. Most of vertical compliance derive from thinner and flexible seatstays and seatpost travel.
Racing is a three-dimensional high-speed chess game, involving hundreds of pieces on the board.

:arrow: CBA = Chronic Bike Addiction
:arrow: OCD = Obsessive Cycling Disorder

Donkey

by Donkey

Here is hard evidence of the argument I was propagating in my review.

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=119751&start=75#p1096097

Both are size 52 frames, an E5 SW and a C10. Both frames have 120mm head tube so for clarity the length of measure is from the ground to the top of headtube along the vertical axis. The Allez measures 790mm. The C10 measures 798mm.

This means that the Allez sits closer to the ground at the front compared to the Dale. Both frames have 71.5mm or 72mm BB drop. This means overall the Allez is closer to the ground. Advantages: Lower center of mass [CoM] + Others*.

Lower CoM results in 1. increased stability, 2. increased traction whilst climbing.

It is used by Rock climbers and many insects which scale near vertical dimensions.

You might say that the order of magnitude is less than 10mm. Sure that's true! But any avid rider putting in quality time on the machine is able to feel a difference. Yes it is indeed a feeling afterall.

Image

Image

Image

To me both the C10 and Allez E5 each hold their own in their own right. I'd pick either if there was the choice. This I beieve is also the consensus of the thread but I in my review I had to correct some of the glaring misconceptions posted in this thread.
Last edited by Donkey on Tue Oct 07, 2014 9:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Donkey

by Donkey

mpulsiv wrote:Let's put arguments aside.

@KWalker
I don't question your authority but stating that CAAD10 is smoother?! I've read relevant threads about Allez and CAAD10 and first time I hear that stiffer CAAD10 offer a smoother ride. Have you tried flexing seatstays with you hand? Take both hands, wrap them around seatstays and squeeze them in. You could argue that it's not a functional test but its a simple one to see how flexible the material is. Most of vertical compliance derive from thinner and flexible seatstays and seatpost travel.


Flexing seat stays with your hand (do you mean squeezing?) won't do anything for comfort. That's a torsional quantity, more to do with frame stiffness at the transmission.
Aluminum offers more or less the same level of stiffness across the board of 2000, 6000 and 7000 alloy configurations. Question is, the quantity of material used and butting at the different locations in the tubings.

The C10 is Venge stiff in the BB due to the seat tube. Some may prefer it, some may not. The Allez is also very stiff but definately more comfortable all round though.
The C10 is more extremely butted in places however, resulting in what I called a cola can effect.

User avatar
mpulsiv
Posts: 1384
Joined: Mon Mar 24, 2014 9:17 pm

by mpulsiv

Donkey wrote:
mpulsiv wrote:Let's put arguments aside.

@KWalker
I don't question your authority but stating that CAAD10 is smoother?! I've read relevant threads about Allez and CAAD10 and first time I hear that stiffer CAAD10 offer a smoother ride. Have you tried flexing seatstays with you hand? Take both hands, wrap them around seatstays and squeeze them in. You could argue that it's not a functional test but its a simple one to see how flexible the material is. Most of vertical compliance derive from thinner and flexible seatstays and seatpost travel.


Flexing seat stays with your hand (do you mean squeezing?) won't do anything for comfort. That's a torsional quantity, more to do with frame stiffness at the transmission.
Aluminum offers more or less the same level of stiffness across the board of 2000, 6000 and 7000 alloy configurations. Question is, the quantity of material used and butting at the different locations in the tubings.

The C10 is Venge stiff in the BB due to the seat tube. Some may prefer it, some may not. The Allez is definately more comfortable all round though.
The C10 is more extremely butted in places however, resulting in what I called a cola can effect.


As far as BB, isn't the Tarmac the stiffest compared to any bike in pro peloton?
Racing is a three-dimensional high-speed chess game, involving hundreds of pieces on the board.

:arrow: CBA = Chronic Bike Addiction
:arrow: OCD = Obsessive Cycling Disorder

Donkey

by Donkey

mpulsiv wrote:As far as BB, isn't the Tarmac the stiffest compared to any bike in pro peloton?


I can't answer that.

BB stiffness is side to side deflection and/or up/down compliance. The term compliance suggests comfort which it is.
Any good modern frame/bike will be stiff enough in the BB.

Post Reply