2024 Pro thread

[OnTheRivet]

I'm convinced there are no motors in the world tour teams currently. The risk to be caught is very high and the team can't put the blame on the pro himself because the bike is provided and serviced by the team itself. That would ruin a team instantly and all sponsors would file lawsuits. Plus the rider gets a 10 year ban.

This is one of the reasons for the Cancellara speculation, he had his own personal mechanic, he was the only guy allowed to work on his bikes.

[tymon_tm]

Pog seems to be having quite a blast taking one dominant win after another. can't remember a rider being so much above the rest race in race out. judging by the shape of riders alone, the Giro's already won. can't say i'm bothered though - unlike Lance or Froome, Pog makes the dominance fun

[justkeepedaling]

Jonas. Tirenno

[eins4eins]

and if you believe in Power and VAM speed calculations, Vingegaard rode uphill significantly faster than Pogacar.

[ave]

>Pog makes the dominance fun

Hell no. But whoever gets 2nd place will be the "real" winner. So it will not be that boring.
One thing is for sure, Pog will not get tired after the race, doing the Giro might help his Tour chances.

[TobinHatesYou]

>Pog makes the dominance fun

Hell no. But whoever gets 2nd place will be the "real" winner. So it will not be that boring.
One thing is for sure, Pog will not get tired after the race, doing the Giro might help his Tour chances.

What does this even mean?

[tymon_tm]

do we really need to compare Jonas to Pog every single time? they are two completely different riders with different goals and capabilities. they do clash at the Tour but that's about it between the two. Pog races whole season long, scoring major wins throughout the season, yet every mention of his undeniable prepotency makes some people here counter with "but what about Jonas".

so lets have it - one look at their win lists reveals who's a great GT rider and who's a beast on the bike. as of today Pog has TWICE the number of wins Jonas has. and that's just a number before revealing what wins they are and of what significance...

[tymon_tm]

>Pog makes the dominance fun

Hell no. But whoever gets 2nd place will be the "real" winner. So it will not be that boring.
One thing is for sure, Pog will not get tired after the race, doing the Giro might help his Tour chances.

What does this even mean?

ah, it's just same ol', same ol' as in the Sagan days. people would always play down his achievements. why? I've no clue, but i can guess: cause they didn't like him, cause just like Pog he came from a country starting with "slov", which made them uncomfortable in ths primal-tribal sense? or maybe it's a doping thing, or something he's done to their fav rider thing. hell knows. but I remember well any doubts expressed about UK riders (namely SKY / ineos ) never sticked here, and in the olden days WW mods would ban for even implying there might be some dirt behind Dutch riders' fingernails.

we've all seemingly grown a bit wiser and more mature over the years, but nevertheless people will reman people, sticked to their preconceptions no matter the facts.

[Karvalo]

do we really need to compare Jonas to Pog every single time? they are two completely different riders with different goals and capabilities. they do clash at the Tour but that's about it between the two. Pog races whole season long, scoring major wins throughout the season, yet every mention of his undeniable prepotency makes some people here counter with "but what about Jonas".

Well, to be fair when you say "one rider so much above the rest" you are kinda explicitly inviting comparison, right?

And when you look at the calendar this year JV is probably odds on to dominate the remaining two week long races he's entering this season and the Tour, and despite last year's wobble probably at least evens to do it at the Vuelta this time as well. If he pulls it off I wouldn't even have the words to decribe what an insane achievement that would be.

But he won't be at LBL, or GdL, or Worlds, or probably any other 1 day races, let alone Strade or RVV. His dominance is narrower... but it's still almost total dominance on the biggest of stages. Can you say he's more dominant? Probably not. But can you say he's less dominant? Probably not that either. So 'what about Jonas' is an undeniably fair comment, isn't it?

[tymon_tm]

as i said he's a great, quite possibly the best GT rider today. has he competed against Pog in one weekers? I can't remember but i'd presume they'd be neck to neck (as there are less climbs and TTing). now aside from stage races there's a whole lot of other events Vin doesn't even take part in, or does poorly. so - he's got Pog challenging him in "his" domain, but is totally absent from the classics rivalry. does that make them that comparable or somehow even? absolutely not.

[spud]

Was surprised that WVA was not at GW, given his lack of racing in 2024, figured he needs some race miles to get fully tuned for Flanders. Was he scheduled to start?

[Karvalo]

as i said he's a great, quite possibly the best GT rider today. has he competed against Pog in one weekers? I can't remember but i'd presume they'd be neck to neck (as there are less climbs and TTing). now aside from stage races there's a whole lot of other events Vin doesn't even take part in, or does poorly. so - he's got Pog challenging him in "his" domain, but is totally absent from the classics rivalry. does that make them that comparable or somehow even? absolutely not.

Pog beat him in TA in 2022 and PN in 2023. But Vin beat him at the Tour both years.

But you can't say they're not comparable and then say they're not even either because Pog is better. That is a comparison. You're doing it.

If you're going to get annoyed that people to bring up Jonas when you ask if there's ever been a more dominant rider then you should have specified in advance that you'll only accept riders who win across 3 week, one week and 1 day races. But then you're artifically creating a category when you already know Pog is the only person who currently inhabits it. Is it incredible that Pog can do that when no-one else can (or at least does)? Of course. Is it necessarily the same as simply being "the most dominant"? No.

[tymon_tm]

Pog beat him in TA in 2022 and PN in 2023. But Vin beat him at the Tour both years.

But you can't say they're not comparable and then say they're not even either because Pog is better. That is a comparison. You're doing it.

If you're going to get annoyed that people to bring up Jonas when you ask if there's ever been a more dominant rider then you should have specified in advance that you'll only accept riders who win across 3 week, one week and 1 day races. But then you're artifically creating a category when you already know Pog is the only person who currently inhabits it. Is it incredible that Pog can do that when no-one else can (or at least does)? Of course. Is it necessarily the same as simply being "the most dominant"? No.

yeah well, gotta agree to disagree then. IMO if we divide racing into two brackets, where rider A gets top results in both, and rider B wins over rider A in one bracket (ever so slightly; A has lots of wins here too) but fails to compete in the second bracket, then - doh - rider A is infact better overall. he's gonna have more wins spanned across the season, and given a different nature of racing in these brackets, will require a broader skillset.

to simplify it even more - Pog can win with Vin in a stage race, but Vin isn't even a threat in one day racing.

[Karvalo]

do we really need to compare Jonas to Pog every single time? they are two completely different riders with different goals and capabilities. they do clash at the Tour but that's about it between the two.

It's interesting that you asked this rhetorical question when your answer to it is "yes we do because Pog is objectively better".

It honestly feels to me like you're agreeing to disagree with yourself now, but ok.

[tymon_tm]

you must be a fun dude to talk to in real life, but i think i'll stop right here and DNF from this race of yours *to be right in the internet today*. congrats mate and cheers!