Glueing tubulars [the tubular thread]

[urbanspaceman]

1. Based on your description, no.
2. I haven't heard of anyone applying one glue brand over another or trying to mate the two. I'm not sure how they'd get along.
3 My experience is with Mastik only, but a tire with dried glued won't stick to a clean rim. You can use a clean spare tubular or clincher rim to stretch.

Thanks mate. I've decided to use a glue by the same manufacturer based on the concerns raised by your answer to mixing the glues.

[3Pio]

Ok. I get back from holliday, had a great riding there using my Shamals.

Before i went on holliday i tried to glue my rear, and maybe i should leave it on first attempt.. But decide to reglue it:

viewtopic.php?f=113&t=72309&start=3630#p1327296

Now when i get back, i done the tumb test again.. and i noticed on one part of the rim it was perfect, on other failed again

Seem that when i try to center the tire, if i dont do it properly in first minute or two, then have problems in that part

Anyway, i removed the tire, to regluie it again.. And now even more problems

On part was glued properly (or i guess to much glue), the base tape was ripped, and separate from the tire on few places.. On one spot totaly disconnected from tire and leaved on the rim.

So, is there chance to save this tire and still to be safe for riding?

Or garbage time?

I was thinking to do it like this:

1. Put Vittoria Mastik on base tape to try to glue it to tire

Wait 24 hours

2. Put Vittoria mastik on spots on tire where glue is missing

Wait 24 hours

3. In meanwhile to try to clean gops of glue on the rim (just with fingers).

Put glue on spots there is missing..

4. Put thicker layer of glue, put the tire and centered in first minute...



Sendin u the pictures of the tire:

[sungod]

i would not use tub glue to fix basetape to tub

fwiw i use a strong contact adhesive

small tears you can just glue back, but a missing section i would want to overlap with a longer piece of tape, 2-3cm each end, not just fill-in the gap

have you an old ruined/worn out tub you can use for 'spares'? i keep a bag with bits of carcass, basetape, and latex tube, all can come in handy for repair work


btw i think you need to pay more attention when removing the tub first sign of a tear in the tape, go very easy and work to detach tape from rim and then hold it tight to prevent the tear spreading as you continue with removal

[dj97223]

Bin it, and try veloflex tubulars instead -- you may have better results than the Vittoria; the base tape is different and, in my experience, better secured to the tire.

I certainly would not use Mastik to try to glue base tape to the tire. But I have used Barge cement for that purpose. See the tubular repair thread for more info.

Oh, and when you remove tubulars, do it carefully. There are plenty of tips on this site about how to do it, which will minimize the chances of separating the tire and tape as you did here. There is a wealth of other tubular information on this site as well. I recommend the search function.

[1415chris]

You can be as much careful as you want to be, but that will not prevent the base tape separating from the tub.
And definitely do not bin it!
I have been using Copydex (this forum's tip [emoji106]), latex based carpet glue, for gluing base tape for many years.
It works almost instantly, when dried it is very easy to remove glue excess.

[3Pio]

i would not use tub glue to fix basetape to tub

fwiw i use a strong contact adhesive

small tears you can just glue back, but a missing section i would want to overlap with a longer piece of tape, 2-3cm each end, not just fill-in the gap

have you an old ruined/worn out tub you can use for 'spares'? i keep a bag with bits of carcass, basetape, and latex tube, all can come in handy for repair work


btw i think you need to pay more attention when removing the tub first sign of a tear in the tape, go very easy and work to detach tape from rim and then hold it tight to prevent the tear spreading as you continue with removal

Thing is that one part come very easy, so i thought it will be the same with other part.. I was wrong and this was happend. Also i tried to dont destroy more base tape, so tried to pull of the tire in valve area.. Another mistake.. I bend the valve and extender. Valve is bend just a little (usefull), and i installed new valve extender. And at the end i still rip the base tape.. Very frustrating...

For removing the tire im finding very good Campagnolo Tire Levers, and just trying part by part (thats how i done it at the end).

I have old tubular Vittoria, so i'll get piece of base tape from there and put it on missing part overlapping.. And u suggest to dont repair the base tape in any part here with Mastik glue, and to use everywhere base tape gluing back Some contct adhesive? BTW, can u suggest me exact products?

Thanks a lot[

[3Pio]

Bin it, and try veloflex tubulars instead -- you may have better results than the Vittoria; the base tape is different and, in my experience, better secured to the tire.

I certainly would not use Mastik to try to glue base tape to the tire. But I have used Barge cement for that purpose. See the tubular repair thread for more info.

Oh, and when you remove tubulars, do it carefully. There are plenty of tips on this site about how to do it, which will minimize the chances of separating the tire and tape as you did here. There is a wealth of other tubular information on this site as well. I recommend the search function.

I will definetely try Veloflex, as soon as i wear out Vittorias i have

I found that using campagnolo tire levers are perfect for removing the tire without destroying anything (but harder way this time).

And i was surpised to find out that base tape actually can be separated easely on Vittoria Corsa G+ (when i was removing part from my old tubular). Expected that this is glue more strong..

You can be as much careful as you want to be, but that will not prevent the base tape separating from the tub.
And definitely do not bin it!
I have been using Copydex (this forum's tip

I'll try to save it Otherwise will be like i give up.. BTW, since there is no Copydex or Barge Cement here.. What kind of glue to look for? Carpet glue? Also not sure that i cant find latex based glue.. So what type of glue (please more universal description to try to find something that can work)to looking for to put the base tape back?

[sungod]

to repair tape you should be ok with...

- evo-stik impact/contact adhesive
- the glue used for show repair


have the tub inflated enough be round (not enough to cause the tape to 'rotate')

don't saturate the tape with glue, i just put some on the tub then press the tape onto it, leave it to dry


when removing a tub that will be reused, sometimes the tape can lift just at the edge, this can be stuck back the same way, i use the point of a wooden bbq skewer to apply glue in the gap then push the edge down and leave it

[Geoff]

@3Pio, gee, that looks like almost every tubular that I pulled in 18 years of racing! There is no problem in fixing those. I recommend using a high-grade, professional carpet cement. In the past, the stuff I used was not available to the public and I had to get it from an installer. I guess it is pretty noxious, so use it outdoors. It really sticks the basetape down well. In Canada, Barge was the manufacturer.

Before you ask, I never has a problem with the glue damaging the stitching, the latex tubes or the glue job.

[3Pio]

@SunGod and @Geoff thanks a lot for ur replies.. And sorry for this late answer (i was riding some long rides, so not proper internet access. Yesterday 182 km for example ).

Anyway, im having trouble to find proper glue here.. Seem that brands u suggest me are not easy available, and i tried to ShoeMakers to check with them.

As first i was thinking ill finish the thing with Shoe Glue like:

http://www.kemostik.com/neostik-en/prod ... versal-en/

- Traditional rubber based Neostik UNIVERSAL ADHESIVE with a strong adhesion for the utmost varied applications. It is suitbale for gluing a wide selection of materials among themselves or on different substrates.
Easy to use: apply a thin layer of adhesive on both contact surfaces and allow it to dry. Neostik UNIVERSAL ADHESIVE provides a permanent bond as soon as the surfaces are pressed together.

BONDS:

rubber, leather, cork, textiles, cardboard, plastics together or on wood, concrete and metal.



But ShoeRepair shops tell me that this is not that strong, and it wont hold too much.

So then i tried to find something based on Liquid Rubber and found this:

http://www.bison.net/en/products/645-ho ... /features/

BONDS:

rubber, leather, cork, textiles, cardboard, plastics together or on wood, concrete and metal.

Repairing paste for repairing, protecting and waterproofing 1001 objects.
Field of application

Ideal for glueing, filling and sealing of rubber, leather, textile, neoprene, various synthetics (such as Hypalon®), wood, metal or ceramics. Also suitable for repairing (sports) shoes, (soles and heels), boots, gloves, slippers, (hockey) sticks, inflatable objects (such as boats, air mattresses) made of rubber or soft PVC, rainwear, travel bags, wetsuits, diving gear, tents, (horse) saddles, decorative materials, headlights and to reinforce stitched seams. Also suitable for filling joints and gaps.



So u think it's suitable one of this? Or i should try to find something else?

Thank u

[sungod]

...
Anyway, im having trouble to find proper glue here.. Seem that brands u suggest me are not easy available, and i tried to ShoeMakers to check with them.
...

where is 'here'?

[3Pio]

...
Anyway, im having trouble to find proper glue here.. Seem that brands u suggest me are not easy available, and i tried to ShoeMakers to check with them.
...

where is 'here'?

Macedonia, Eastern Europe...

[sungod]

Macedonia, Eastern Europe...

the neostik you linked to looks ok to me, i do not think the liquid rubber one is correct for this application

how is import from eu? i never was involved with Macedonia but I had some experience with Serbia and others, i know it is not always simple!

if it's ok, you can get evo-stik on ebay for instance, though shipping cost may be crazy, but i think the neostik/similar will be as good

fyi data sheet on evo-stik that you can use for comparison with others...
https://www.rapidonline.com/pdf/77519_v1.pdf

[3Pio]

Macedonia, Eastern Europe...

the neostik you linked to looks ok to me, i do not think the liquid rubber one is correct for this application

how is import from eu? i never was involved with Macedonia but I had some experience with Serbia and others, i know it is not always simple!

if it's ok, you can get evo-stik on ebay for instance, though shipping cost may be crazy, but i think the neostik/similar will be as good

fyi data sheet on evo-stik that you can use for comparison with others...
https://www.rapidonline.com/pdf/77519_v1.pdf

Thanks SunGod, glad that u uderstund dificulties we have here with some sime things sometimes

I just opened datasheet for Evo-Stik.. I can see that Service Temperature range is:
+5°C to +55°C

Wouldnt that be a problem since i guess temperature on tires reach more then this, specially in Summer Months? (For example riding i had on Kefalonya two weeks ago was on 41 deg Celsius).

[sungod]

i use it subzero, and probably above that range too with braking in very hot weather

sometimes i check rims after hard braking, but unless they were too hot to touch i would not be concerned (if they did get that hot and i knew there was heavy braking soon, then i might think about waiting to cool down!)

glue like this is not simply perfect until temperature x then it suddenly fails, there will be a gradual loss of strength

for a small area of base tape i do not think it is a problem, some people use latex/copydex/etc. which are much weaker to start with, they do ok though - i tried using these but never liked the result i got, it was always very easy to peel the tape

also consider that vittoria mastik'one performance falls as temperature increases (though not as badly as most other tub glues), by 50c it has lost about 25% strength vs. strength at 23c, and loses 35% by 60c

if your rims are getting to 60c + then the tub is just not going to be stuck as strongly as at lower temperatures

bear in mind i'm not a glue expert! i just say what i use ok, ultimately you need to decide what you are happy using!