ENVE 4.5 SES - Spoke woes...

[clipsed]

Hi guys,

Just wanted to discuss the issues 2017 has brought me with my ENVE 4.5 SES wheel with CK45 hubs (Cx-ray spokes).

As of this weekend, i have officially broken my 5th spoke in 11 months (rear wheel).

The first 3 breaks were repaired by ENVE (i had to pay the $40 shipping each time). Then they replaced the RIM and relaced the whole wheel (new spokes of course). Since then, i have broken an addition 2 spokes on the the newly rebuilt wheel...

The two recent breakages have occurred inside the wheel, at or just below the nipple. The previous ones were about 3/4 up the spoke.

Is this a common occurrence with this configuration? I ran zipp 303's for > 2 years with zero issue.

A few stats about me, i am 77kg with a max sprint power of ~ 1650w (Race A grade).

I will be selling these with much regret.. I am considering picking up a set of 303 NSW's that are going for a good price locally.

[whosatthewheel]

Most spoke breakages are down to poor spoke tension, so I suspect this is your problem. You should return the wheel again and demand another rebuild, they should pay for delivery. Given these are "handbuilts" you should ask for a stronger build as well, so maybe using something like DT Swiss Aerocomp spokes.

Failing that, you should find a trustworthy builder to check all the tensions for you and possibly rebuild the wheel again... once they start popping, it means they are fatigued (due to low spoke tension) and it will keep happening

[Marin]

Were the failures all on the left side?

[clipsed]

Were the failures all on the left side?

I can't quite remember the earlier ones, but the last 2 were definitely NDS.

[clipsed]

Most spoke breakages are down to poor spoke tension, so I suspect this is your problem. You should return the wheel again and demand another rebuild, they should pay for delivery. Given these are "handbuilts" you should ask for a stronger build as well, so maybe using something like DT Swiss Aerocomp spokes.

Failing that, you should find a trustworthy builder to check all the tensions for you and possibly rebuild the wheel again... once they start popping, it means they are fatigued (due to low spoke tension) and it will keep happening

I figured this could be the case, i doubt ENVE will fork up the cash to be honest.

I did call a reputable wheelbuilder that charges ~ $300 (AUD) for a full build and spokes. I am just feeling a bit dejected and might just sell.

[whosatthewheel]

I figured this could be the case, i doubt ENVE will fork up the cash to be honest.

I did call a reputable wheelbuilder that charges ~ $300 (AUD) for a full build and spokes. I am just feeling a bit dejected and might just sell.

It's a bit steep for rear only, bearing in mind it is less than an hour of work + 24 spokes and nipples. BUT, if it solves the problem (and it should solve the problem) then it's less money than you would lose by selling those (broken) and buying some new wheels.
Also, have you thought about using much cheaper round spokes at the rear? There is hardly any difference in terms of aerodynamics, given the rear is a very turbulent part of the bike

There is nothing wrong with Enve rims and possibly hubs... the problem here is a poor build quality

[clipsed]

I figured this could be the case, i doubt ENVE will fork up the cash to be honest.

I did call a reputable wheelbuilder that charges ~ $300 (AUD) for a full build and spokes. I am just feeling a bit dejected and might just sell.

It's a bit steep for rear only, bearing in mind it is less than an hour of work + 24 spokes and nipples. BUT, if it solves the problem (and it should solve the problem) then it's less money than you would lose by selling those (broken) and buying some new wheels.
Also, have you thought about using much cheaper round spokes at the rear? There is hardly any difference in terms of aerodynamics, given the rear is a very turbulent part of the bike

There is nothing wrong with Enve rims and possibly hubs... the problem here is a poor build quality

I have considered this, perhaps an aerocomp or cx-sprint rather than cx-ray spoke.

The nsw's are 2nd hand, and after i get the enve's fixed (spoke + tension from a different shop i actually trust) i could resell for a similar price to the nsws - so no money out of pocket for me there.

[whosatthewheel]

I have considered this, perhaps an aerocomp or cx-sprint rather than cx-ray spoke.

Those are still aero spokes... I was thinking in terms of Sapim Race or DT Comp. Given those hubs use J bend spokes, it should be all cheap as chips.

Typical UK price for such rebuild would be 20-25 GBP worth of spokes + another 25-40 GBP worth of labour

[clipsed]

I have considered this, perhaps an aerocomp or cx-sprint rather than cx-ray spoke.

Those are still aero spokes... I was thinking in terms of Sapim Race or DT Comp. Given those hubs use J bend spokes, it should be all cheap as chips.

Typical UK price for such rebuild would be 20-25 GBP worth of spokes + another 25-40 GBP worth of labour

maybe i have to call around! I do miss my old zipps i will let you know what i do..

[StradaJon]

Its a combination of a too thin spoke, poor spoke tensions and this is made worse by the R45 NDS flange which does not give good spoke tension to start with. Find a local builder with a calibrated spoke tension meter to remove the DS (at least) and swap for CX Sprint and re-tension the whole lot evenly. It's an easy fix.

[Marin]

You should *keep* the thin spokes on the NDS, the fix is to use stiffer DS spokes!

You need the NDS spokes to be more elastic so they don't fully lose tension when the wheel is loaded.

Every full unloading of a spoke is a fatigue cycle, and the spokes that didn't break yet will probably also have done their share of cycles unless tension was very uneven.

[Noctiluxx]

How are the Enve 4.5's compared to your old Zipp Firecrest 303's? Few months ago my NSW 404's were replaced by Zipp for faulty hubs. Yes, bad Zipp hubs. My Campy Bora Ultra 50 rear wheel is currently at Campanolo for too much play. BTW when both wheels are running well, the Bora Ultras are the superior wheels.

[spdntrxi]

I’ve broke 1 .. front wheel left side.. just past nipple. Actually just got the wheel back on Sunday . Hubs are extralite cyberhub SP

[Flyfishing3]

Snapped one in the back. Can’t remember the side. DT240 hub

[pdlpsher1]

I’ve always liked 2:1 laced rear wheels with 21 spokes. I’ve never broken a 2:1 laced wheels (Shimano, Campy, and Fulcrum). 2:1 laced wheels all use heavy gauge spokes.


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