preview: Al33 kickstarter launch (new 33mm deep toroidal shaped aluminum rims (465gram) + wheels)

[AJS914]

I think it's the look - all black with ceramic coating. It looks like a carbon rim and sounds high tech. Honestly, I think most people are buying carbon clinchers based on the look rather than the actual performance or technical merits.

[Multebear]

It kind of makes me wonder why the Airforce is getting so much buzz.

Salesmanship.

This was my first thought as well. I'm not overly impressed with the salesmanship though. How come a european rim manufacturer delivers for US market but not for home market? I've asked where to buy them in EU, but there's no answer.

I don't see it as good salesmanship if your product isn't available. I have a set of homelaced Flo30's, and two carbon wheelsets for road. I'm not gonna miss out, if these ones aren't available. I'm probably just gonna forget about them and move on or just buy the Kinlin 31's, that are cheaper and available.

And I'm not so convinced, that I prefer alu to carbon, and I don't agree with these statements:

If an alloy rim was lighter than a carbon rim with equivalent aerodynamics, able to be used tubed or tubeless, presented no question of being able to use it with latex tubes if desired, had superior braking, had none of the heat issues associated with carbon rims, was available with an unlimited number of better hub options, and cost well over $1000 less, why would anyone choose the carbon wheel?

That question isn't even limited to the Al33, as we've identified at least one other option that's less expensive and very broadly available.

I have farsports rims 50 mm at 477 grams a rim. That's lighter than A-Force. And they are tubeless compatible, I'm currently using them in the spanish mountains with latex tubes. They brake if not excellent then at least very good, in the wet they brake well enough. They are available in everything from 16 to 32 holes, and the hubs I choose myself (these ones with Chris King R45 ceramic version, that should cover hubs). The price tag: $ 400 for two rims.

Not sure what I'm missing out on after some additional thinking about these rims.

That said, I mainly use the carbon wheels for racing besides this training camp in Spain. The Flo's are used for training as well as some other wheelsets.

[mpulsiv]

I think it's the look - all black with ceramic coating. It looks like a carbon rim and sounds high tech. Honestly, I think most people are buying carbon clinchers based on the look rather than the actual performance or technical merits.

I have said this before and will say it again. This industry is so successful because we mimic Pro's. We buy carbon wheels for aesthetics and marginal aero gains is a freebie. This is a proven fact. Needless to say majority of cyclists don't even race. Black brake track is the current wave to fulfill the desire for those of you who are into aesthetics. I choose functionality and longevity over aesthetics and race Spring classics, crits and track on modern ~30mm aluminum wheels.

[Multebear]

I have said this before and will say it again. This industry is so successful because we mimic Pro's. We buy carbon wheels for aesthetics and marginal aero gains is a freebie. This is a proven fact. Needless to say majority of cyclists don't even race. Black brake track is the current wave to fulfill the desire for those of you who are into aesthetics. I choose functionality and longevity over aesthetics and race Spring classics, crits and track on modern ~30mm aluminum wheels.

1) If this is true, why don't we see any pro's riding aluminum wheels in spring classics, stage races or other pro events? Surely there must by aluminum rim manufacturers who could sponsor pro teams with wheels if the teams would accept them.

2) functionality and longevity for training, sure. But for racing - no way. My carbon wheels are significantly faster.

3) I agree with you that if one doesn't race, there is no reason to buy carbon except aesthetics.

[kulivontot]

My carbon wheels are significantly faster.

Orly?
I'm gonna call you out on this one and ask for your data. Bc it's sounds a lot like confirmation bias.

[Johnny Rad]

Off-topic disclaimer: I haven't been following this thread, but couldn't help sticking my nose in when I saw mpulsiv's comment below...

I have said this before and will say it again. This industry is so successful because we mimic Pro's. We buy carbon wheels for aesthetics and marginal aero gains...

I resemble that comment. I admit it. I'll own it.

In all seriousness, in what other sports do amateurs go to the same lengths as we do in cycling?

Many of us mimic the pro's from the kit to the bikes and everything in between.

Many of us embrace the "fake it until you make it" mantra knowing that we'll never make it (being pro).

Need I point out "The Rules," which are tongue-in-cheek until they're not. "Oh those poor Freds don't know any better," some of us proudly say to ourselves or to those "in the know."

As much as I'm continually trying to be a better human being (I have a long ways to go), I include me in the "many" noted above.

On topic: Pretty sure I don't see a 465g rim in my future regardless of its material of construction - especially if it's not deep carbon with mad aero properties and a pro sponsorship.

[ergott]

The Kinlin XR31T only costs $75. The Easton R90SL is about the same price.

Easton R90SL is $128

https://fairwheelbikes.com/wheels/rims/

[glepore]

What's wrong with fashion?

Ambrosio is a fashion. So are black rims.

[AJS914]

The Kinlin XR31T only costs $75. The Easton R90SL is about the same price.

Easton R90SL is $128

Sorry, if it was not clear. I meant that the Easton is about the same price as the Aforce rim.

1) If this is true, why don't we see any pro's riding aluminum wheels in spring classics, stage races or other pro events? Surely there must by aluminum rim manufacturers who could sponsor pro teams with wheels if the teams would accept them.

First, the pros aren’t riding clinchers. Second, cost is also no object for them so they can ride the best which is carbon tubulars.

2) functionality and longevity for training, sure. But for racing - no way. My carbon wheels are significantly faster.

The data says the gain is marginal, very marginal.

[Multebear]

My carbon wheels are significantly faster.

Orly?
I'm gonna call you out on this one and ask for your data. Bc it's sounds a lot like confirmation bias.

They are toroidal shaped, deeper sectioned, lighter and they are spoked 20/24. With A force it's my understanding I would have to ride at least 20/28 spokes.

Obviously mine are faster.

Data? Find some data that are completely unbiased.

[ergott]

My carbon wheels are significantly faster.

Can you please clarify your definition of significantly faster in this context?

[Multebear]

My carbon wheels are significantly faster.

Can you please clarify your definition of significantly faster in this context?

Traveling faster with the same amount of watts. Some KOM's on strava were only possible with these wheels, but not with the Flo30's. Or my DT R460 for that sake.

I usually ride with the same guys, and when I occasionally use my Farsports rims, I tend to do better when we are pushing it (racing or pace lining). Guys who usually tend to drop me, have to work harder to drop me, and sometimes they don't even succeed. Guys on the same level get dropped by me as opposed to with my Flo30's. It strikes me as the difference between having great legs as opposed to god legs. Tires and tubes are equal.

[morganb]

Does anyone have a brake pad recommendation to use with these? I got the ceramic coated ones and a not sure if my normal pads (Kool Stop Salmons) will burn through quickly and/or wear the coating faster.

[NoMütze]

Does anyone have a brake pad recommendation to use with these? I got the ceramic coated ones and a not sure if my normal pads (Kool Stop Salmons) will burn through quickly and/or wear the coating faster.

well, the description says "ceramic specific pads"...which will be included in sets of wheels.
not sure which other compounds will work,
however koolstop has some options...: Kool Stop R4 Dura Keramik

best to ask Jan directly ...
quote from kickstarter:
..."Wear of the brake pads depend on the kind of pads used.The pads supplied do wear quite quick if compared to standard alloy pads, As we designed these purely for optimal braking power.
For example they also work fine with our carbon pads and the pads last a lot longer, Also good modulation but just a little less power. (still comparable to standard aluminum rims if not better).
The first pads will go faster, After 1 set of pads wear speed will be reduced as the rims will wear in."

[ergott]

You're missing the question. Clarify the word significant. Are you suggesting you are faster by several mph? 1mph? Give me a ballpark like one set I go 25mph and with the same effort I go 27mph with the other set. Just curious.