Multebear wrote:@NovemberDave
That sounds definitely interesting. And you're sure this rim is more aero than 303?
You mention another aero alloy rim. Which one is that?
Equivalent to a 303, not more aero. Definitely did not ever say more. In our final analysis I think we gave the 303 a 4mm advantage over the Al33 and XR31T in the 40k TT. Tunnel test results are here. http://www.novemberbicycles.com/blog/2017/2/9/wind-tunnel-testing-the-al33-xr31tfsw3-and-other-alloys.html The post following that one has more detail and explanation. http://www.novemberbicycles.com/blog/2017/2/10/wind-tunnel-testing-the-al33-xr31tfsw3-and-others-part-2.html
In any case, the differences between the setups we tested, from 303 to HED Belgium+, were small. Something like 6 seconds in the mythical 40k TT. Tour Magazine did a similar test, with broader scope, in their 2016 Issue 8 and came up with similar conclusions. I believe that these combined results speak for themselves, and put to rest the fallacy that you're going to go 1 mph faster (or anything remotely close to it ) by choosing a 45 or 60mm deep wheel versus a good alloy rim.
Our enthusiasm for this rim is composed of a couple of things. First, from what we've seen in testing it since early last summer it's a well made rim that rides very nicely and stays together. Every rim must do that. They are also very nice looking rims, with a pleasing shape and they look great on the bike. I believe that this point is more important to any particular wheel's desirability to people than any other single point, and I say that without being the least bit judgmental about it. No one wants his bike to look less good than it can, all else being equal.
In my personal use of the wheels, I never once felt that I was sacrificing any speed at all, and I'm calibrated enough to how and where and how fast I ride that any real performance anomalies would have been readily apparent to me. I was surprised that the Al33 and Kinlin did as well as they did relative to the 303, but not shocked. I had expected them to be quite close, just not as close as they are.
In order to get more miles onto them, I loaned them to friends I ride with, one in particular had them for an extended amount of time. He currently rides a set of HED C2 with T11s that we built for him, which replaced a set of 40mm deep carbons from the world's second largest cycling brand, with which he had had several problems. His response after riding them for a few weeks was that they're the best wheels he'd ever used and he planned to get a set as soon as possible. People consistently asked the wheels when they were on a bike - "those look cool, what are they?" and that kind of thing.
Another big part of our enthusiasm for the project is that it's nice to see someone giving aluminum a full-blooded effort. Every wheel brand wants to sell you carbon wheels, for multiple reasons all having to do with commercial interest. Carbons cost more, the transactional value of a carbon sale is higher than that of an alloy sale, it's easier to differentiate your carbon wheels in a crowded market, people tend to lump all alloy together as "slow" and "all the same" and not race worthy and uncool and whatever else. So no company that sells carbon is going to spend too much money or trouble promoting alloy because alloy isn't as profitable a business to be in as carbon. The second we did our test with Kinlin XC279 in July of 2014 (it's also included in the Tour Mag test, and scored VERY high marks), our public story became that the aero difference between good and bad alloy was much bigger than the aero difference between good alloy and good carbon, and that knowledge veered us off onto a unique path. We've never seen an alloy rim brought to market with principles so closely matching the ones we've developed along that path.
As far as I can tell, I'm the only one actually involved in the thread who's ridden one of the wheels. The person with complaints about brake track wear isn't on the thread, and I've given my questions about those concerns and contrasted them with our experience, and apart from his coating concern we have no idea how he did or didn't like the wheels. I don't view any coating as permanent, it's certainly a nice feature but not the entire story, and the wheels are available for a lower price without the coating. Wear is a nearly infinitely variable thing, and one needs to look only at experiences with other similar coatings to see that experiences with them vary. I see no reason to hide the fact that I think that carbon wheels are as popular as they are because of how they look, and because of the huge push they are given by an industry that sees more profit in selling them than in selling alloy wheels, so I know that looks are important and are a part of the Al33's story.
Personally, we'll just as happily sell you a set made with Kinlins or any of the other great ally rims we use. For the reasons detailed, we're pulling for the Al33 guys to get going and make a good go of it. As with any other product out there, it will have ups and downs. If they don't handle those well or fail to deliver on the product's promise, they'll struggle. One big headwind right away is the emergence of the new Exalith Open Pro, and we're going to offer them as soon as they're available. I have been predicting that the "black alloy" market will get very crowded very soon, and from the reports from Taipei Cycle Show that prediction is coming true at shocking speed.