preview: Al33 kickstarter launch (new 33mm deep toroidal shaped aluminum rims (465gram) + wheels)

[mpulsiv]

Yes but the Kinlin lacks the ceramic brake track....


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There are 2 versions of AForce Al33, with black ceramic brake track (up charge) and machined (silver).

Kinlin KR31T rim is not true "U" shape, like FLO30, Al33 and Boyd Altamont.

Boyd Altamont with black ceramic brake track is slated for release in May. It will be $150 up charge http://www.boydcycling.com/2016-altamon ... rear-wheel

[istigatrice]

So what if the Kinlin rim isn't U shaped, according to the wind tunnel it does just fine.

[mpulsiv]

So what if the Kinlin rim isn't U shaped, according to the wind tunnel it does just fine.

Sure, it performs quiet well but doesn't come with black ceramic brake track. Vast majority of cyclists are purely into aesthetics. Needless to say, many mimic pro riders. Why do you think the industry exploded with carbon wheels? Aesthetics (rim depth with black brake track) comes first and aero is a freebie. There's enough data now to consider modern "U" shape aluminum rims. As I said earlier, "Do you really need $2000 Zipp 303 wheels when Al33 would do? We are talking about ~0.3 watts (at 10 degrees of yaw angle) and ~0.1 watt (at 10 degrees of yaw angle). In 40k, this roughly translates to ~1.5 seconds. There are 3 wheelsets between $500-$750 (Aforce Al33, FLO30, Boyd Altamont) to give someone (Zipp) run for their money."

[antonioiglesius]

For me, if I'm purely into aesthetics and not worried about being blown all over the place, I will pick at least a mid-depth black rim (>45mm). I won't consider a shallow black rim. The winning rim, to me, is one that's deep, yet won't get jerked around by the wind.

I'm also worried about how long the black track will last. A number of similar rims (e.g. I believe the Fulcrum Zero Nite) have the black coating wearing off over time, especially when it's wet.

[Kurets]

Does anyone know when it will be possible for non backers to get hold of a pair of these rims? In Europe that is. Should be easier considering that Aforce is located in Leiden according to the Kickstarter. Man, I even lived in Leiden once..

[thp]

The backers are barely getting updates so I doubt we'll get much here. They're on prowheelbuilder as stated earlier, not sure about actual stock.
Looks like another good 2 months until the next batch.

[bikebreak]

Here's a link to the blog. Seems that the AL33's best Zipp 303's in most yaw's http://www.novemberbicycles.com/blog/2017/2/9/wind-tunnel-testing-the-al33-xr31tfsw3-and-other-alloys.html

The oddity to me is that up to 6 degrees the Kinlin XR31T tests better than the AL33 which on paper should be more aero due to depth, width and shape

maybe there are other variables such as tire to rim interface that we are not considering in the focus on the easily quantifiable depth, width and shape

[bikebreak]

For me, if I'm purely into aesthetics and not worried about being blown all over the place, I will pick at least a mid-depth black rim (>45mm). I won't consider a shallow black rim. The winning rim, to me, is one that's deep, yet won't get jerked around by the wind....

Then you need carbon rims not alloy. No one bothers with deeper allow rims since they would be quite heavy.

I've had good rides with the new Easton EC90 55mm aero rim in moderate winds (20mph gusts). Very noticeable at 90 degrees of yaw but no worse than a 303 firecrest, which behaves pretty well

[glepore]

FWIW. prowheelbuilder only has the non-ceramic track version. And aesthetics aside, there is a reason you might want the ceramic, as apparently they work well with carbon friendly pads.

[NovemberDave]

Depending on this megastorm that's supposed to start any moment now, we'll begin shipping our first "production" sets at the end of the week. These include both ceramic and machined versions.

I have no definite information on when subsequent deliveries will be available. Obviously I have some information, but nothing definite worth posting on a forum.

Re: the differences between the Kinlin and Al33 at low angles, that's not very surprising to me. 0 degrees is where you will see the lowest affect of depth, which becomes more important as you get out past the 7.5* point or so. Someone worth listening to (forget who) once said "at zero degrees, it's all the tire." Obviously not 100% true, but a worthwhile statement. How wide a rim gets relative to its depth, and how that width develops, is important as you move away from the very low angles. The more blunted shapes have a tendency (there are no hard fast rules) to perform relatively better in that sort of 7 to 12 or 15 window (deeper rims can generally hang on longer before stall).

Someone made the comment that there are a number of rims that can give the 303 a run for its money, seemingly specifically excluding the XR31T, which I can't understand although maybe I've misread the post. From what we saw, the HED Belgium+ should be included in that group as well, based on the rims that were included (which included some rims I've never seen any data on).

[sbh1973]

The Al33 is not vaporware. I took delivery of several hundred on Monday and am now shipping to dealers who pre-ordered. The standard MSW (non-ceramic) will be available to consumers by the end of this week, and some with the ceramic brake track (sets only initially) will be available next week. Dealers are getting first priority. It will take a few months to have a stable inventory. But overall, it's been less than a year from design to market, which is pretty good. You don't want to rush these things.

I don't post on forums much - if at all, really - and haven't discussed this rim here or elsewhere at all. So please don't look at this post as so much shameless advertising. But I wanted to finally chime in and say that the Al33 is very real, we have them, and - if I do say so myself - they're gorgeous. Congratulations Jan - great work!

Brandon (BWP/BHS)

Unless or until these are widely available from regular production runs - and not low number pre-production 'specials' - they remain vapourware to all intents and purposes IMO.....

[thp]

The Al33 is not vaporware. I took delivery of several hundred on Monday and am now shipping to dealers who pre-ordered. The standard MSW (non-ceramic) will be available to consumers by the end of this week, and some with the ceramic brake track (sets only initially) will be available next week. Dealers are getting first priority. It will take a few months to have a stable inventory. But overall, it's been less than a year from design to market, which is pretty good. You don't want to rush these things.

I don't post on forums much - if at all, really - and haven't discussed this rim here or elsewhere at all. So please don't look at this post as so much shameless advertising. But I wanted to finally chime in and say that the Al33 is very real, we have them, and - if I do say so myself - they're gorgeous. Congratulations Jan - great work!

Brandon (BWP/BHS)

Unless or until these are widely available from regular production runs - and not low number pre-production 'specials' - they remain vapourware to all intents and purposes IMO.....

So essentially he's providing dealers with product before delivering on his kickstarter campaign, which is already 5 months late. Maybe it would have been wiser to focus on internal delivery of paid for products.

[ergott]

The Al33 is not vaporware. I took delivery of several hundred on Monday and am now shipping to dealers who pre-ordered. The standard MSW (non-ceramic) will be available to consumers by the end of this week, and some with the ceramic brake track (sets only initially) will be available next week. Dealers are getting first priority. It will take a few months to have a stable inventory. But overall, it's been less than a year from design to market, which is pretty good. You don't want to rush these things.

I don't post on forums much - if at all, really - and haven't discussed this rim here or elsewhere at all. So please don't look at this post as so much shameless advertising. But I wanted to finally chime in and say that the Al33 is very real, we have them, and - if I do say so myself - they're gorgeous. Congratulations Jan - great work!

Brandon (BWP/BHS)

Unless or until these are widely available from regular production runs - and not low number pre-production 'specials' - they remain vapourware to all intents and purposes IMO.....

So essentially he's providing dealers with product before delivering on his kickstarter campaign, which is already 5 months late. Maybe it would have been wiser to focus on internal delivery of paid for products.

Did you order wheels from the KS? Are you sure they aren't building and delivering on those orders too? BHS and November receiving inventory at the same time as production came in isn't that strange nor is it poor form.

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[thp]

Yes and Yes (in the single digits as well). They did not ensure kickstarter inventory was properly managed, ordered, nor communicated.

From the kickstarter:
"We will use our remaining kickstarter campaign, for collecting more data , and if needed, small adjustment. However we believe our product is ready for production as it have been tested in many demanding conditions.

If project is funded we will start production directly after our campaign ends. And most likely our wheels and rims will ship out in november."

[ergott]

Do you know when you are getting your wheels yet?