Lightweight wheels for new build. Enve 2.2 or AX Lightness

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leicaman
Posts: 129
Joined: Fri Mar 14, 2014 3:55 pm

by leicaman

Hi all
I'm currently planning my new build and was wondering what wheels to go with. I have finally decided on a rim brake frame after a few months of debating the disc brake option. At the moment I have a few sets of wheels but find I get the most enjoyment from my climbing wheels, which are a set of tubular farsport 24mm deep carbon rims laced to Tune 170 / 70 hubs weighing in at 996g for the set. The rear has been pretty noisy/creaky throughout its life so I'd like to go with a different hub next. The farsport rims are pretty much on their last legs. The braking on them is terrible, bordering on dangerous. The braking has never been good, always far worse than my FFWD tubs, so I'd like to get a rim with a good brake track.

My options so far include

1) Enve 2.2 Tubs laced to CK hubs.

2) Enve 2.2 Tubs laced to DT240S hubs.

2) AX lightness Selection road 24 Tubs laced to DT240S hubs

Are there any other options out there that fall around to 1100g mark?

The AX lightness are substantially cheaper but would I regret getting them in the long run?

mimason
Posts: 654
Joined: Tue Feb 24, 2009 11:43 pm
Location: Florida

by mimason

You can get under 1100 with the carbon Enve hubs but I'd go with Kings.

I can't comment on AX lightness other that I would not expect them to be nearly as robust as the ENVE hoops in comparison. How much do you weigh?

by Weenie


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wheelsONfire
Posts: 6280
Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2014 8:15 am
Location: NorthEU

by wheelsONfire

That question will be very very difficult to give you an honest answer to. That is if you look for fact and not BS?
How many have had both these wheels to tell you you will regret any of them in the long run?

I would buy the one i believe is the best. Ofcourse for most easy service you go for DT hubs (i guess) or else you would not go for those for Ax wheels?
Ax brake track is more or less common if you get me?
Nothing to write home about if you ride in the rain/ wet, as any other wheel if you ride in the dry.
I don't say they are bad, but nothing that is radically better or different.

I would expect Ax to incorporate same brake track on all their wheels after talking to Nils about them.
Enve however, no idea never used Enve.

I only have Ax Stream 38 of these two. If you really want a braking that is good, you should use disc brakes and Shimanos Ice tech rotors (any one of them).
Modulation and stopping power is hammering rim brakes (yes, that is the truth)!
Atleast compared to Mavics latest CCU version rims, Easton Aero 55 and above mentioned Ax rims.
I have both DA 9000 brakes, EE (latest version) and Shimano ST-R785 + BR-R785 hydraulic disc brakes.
Bikes:

Ax Lightness Vial EVO Race (2019.01.03)
Open *UP* (2016.04.14)
Paduano Racing Fidia (kind of shelved)


Ex bike; Vial EVO D, Vial EVO Ultra, Scott Foil, Paduano ti bike.

leicaman
Posts: 129
Joined: Fri Mar 14, 2014 3:55 pm

by leicaman

Thanks for the replies

Mimason- The Enve hubs do look very nice. From what I can see they use DT intervals with a carbon shell. Although dipping under 1100g would be nice, the price outweighs the benefits in my opinion. The Kings are quite a bit cheaper. I weigh around 70kg (154lbs) so that shouldn't be such a problem for any of the wheelsets I'm looking at.

WheelsONfire - that's what I was thinking regarding the AX rims. They probably won't set the world on fire, but they will do a reasonable job. I see that the rims are quite a lot narrower than the Enve rims. This is probably one of the reasons they are sub 1000g

I live and ride in Japan (although originally from England). The roads here are generally pretty good and the weather is fairly predictable. I don't ride in the rain if I can help it so the wheels will be ridden only in the dry for 99% of their live.

The bike I'm building up is going to be a little special (for me) so I'm leaning towards the Enve with CK.

bm0p700f
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by bm0p700f

Extralite hubs is a way to shed weight. Personally the DT hubs in 24H drilling are likely to lead to a wheel that shows flex. The CK hubs are better in that regards but too pricey for me.

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iliedanila
Posts: 122
Joined: Mon Feb 15, 2016 7:30 pm
Location: Romania

by iliedanila

leicaman wrote:
Are there any other options out there that fall around to 1100g mark?


Yes, I have a pair of tune schwarzbrenner 38T that came in at 1120g.
Theese are very good wheels. Wide, stiff, brake is very good.. And the hubs roll very nicely.

Sent from my SM-G928F using Tapatalk

leicaman
Posts: 129
Joined: Fri Mar 14, 2014 3:55 pm

by leicaman

bm0p700f wrote:Extralite hubs is a way to shed weight. Personally the DT hubs in 24H drilling are likely to lead to a wheel that shows flex. The CK hubs are better in that regards but too pricey for me.

I heard that the extralite hubs need a lot of TLC to kee them in tip top condition. Is this the case?

iliedanila wrote:
leicaman wrote:
Are there any other options out there that fall around to 1100g mark?


Yes, I have a pair of tune schwarzbrenner 38T that came in at 1120g.
Theese are very good wheels. Wide, stiff, brake is very good.. And the hubs roll very nicely.

Sent from my SM-G928F using Tapatalk
iliedanila wrote:
leicaman wrote:
Are there any other options out there that fall around to 1100g mark?


Yes, I have a pair of tune schwarzbrenner 38T that came in at 1120g.
Theese are very good wheels. Wide, stiff, brake is very good.. And the hubs roll very nicely.

Sent from my SM-G928F using Tapatalk


Thanks for the tip. Just looked at them on Starbike and they a pretty damn reasonably priced. My only concern is with get another Tune hub. I had problems with the rear Mag 170 just about the whole time I had them. Not sure I want to take the chance of them being creakers again. How are yours? Silent?

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wheelsONfire
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Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2014 8:15 am
Location: NorthEU

by wheelsONfire

I don't really grasp why you need Ultra 24? You might aswell get Stream 38 with Tune (Mig45/Mag150).
They will hit the scale at 1010-1030 grams with stickers.
Mine was 1010-1015 grams.
You get the widest rim Ax currently has at 26mm which will help increase stability.
I think Enve will be atleast 100 grams more. Perhaps braking is better as this is Enves latest revision.
Or if you really skip both these and go for Extralite (which again will lower weight)?
These seems to be cheaper to if that is of relevance?
If you are light and no power house they should work well.
All of them run 20/24 spokes and i would not go below that if i bought a wheelset today.
I have a set with 16/20 spokes, but i wonder how they would be with 20/24.

I do agree that a wider rim make a difference. They claim clinchers benefit more from a wider rim, but i must say i find my two wider rim wheelset both ride more calm and stable than my previous Mavic CCU. Actually i must say the two main things you did note directly, is stability and comfort over CCU.
Some guys like wheels which are super stiff, but to me it translates into harsh ride feel.
Changing tires does not really affect the signum of how the wheel feels. I can easily ride my current wheelsets with narrower tires and still feel that the wider rims are less nervous, the feel less affected by wind that a narrower V-shaped rim.

Even when i built up my latest bike, i directly decided on a wide rim and semi aero rim despite this is a gravel bike.

You can view the Extralite wheels here:
http://www.extralite.com/Products/CyberMax%20C32.htm

I think you can go ahead and ask Starbike what you can get these for. I believe you can get a good price, if you ask!
Bikes:

Ax Lightness Vial EVO Race (2019.01.03)
Open *UP* (2016.04.14)
Paduano Racing Fidia (kind of shelved)


Ex bike; Vial EVO D, Vial EVO Ultra, Scott Foil, Paduano ti bike.

bm0p700f
in the industry
Posts: 5777
Joined: Sat May 12, 2012 7:25 pm
Location: Glermsford, Suffolk U.K
Contact:

by bm0p700f

Extralite hubs require some TLC, the main thing is to keep checking the bearing preload adjuster beyond that there is little that needs doing.

Sub 1000g with these hubs is possible. I did a set with heavier carbon Ti hubs and 38mm deep carbon tubular rims in 20F/24R that weight 1020g. With I had used the extralite's though. Can't say I have noticed any stability issues with the 20.5mm rims I used. They are stiff rims though and that what the extra width does nothing more and that could translate to extra stability but ti will depend on what wheels on fire might mean by this.

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iliedanila
Posts: 122
Joined: Mon Feb 15, 2016 7:30 pm
Location: Romania

by iliedanila

leicaman wrote:
bm0p700f wrote:Extralite hubs is a way to shed weight. Personally the DT hubs in 24H drilling are likely to lead to a wheel that shows flex. The CK hubs are better in that regards but too pricey for me.

I heard that the extralite hubs need a lot of TLC to kee them in tip top condition. Is this the case?

iliedanila wrote:
leicaman wrote:
Are there any other options out there that fall around to 1100g mark?


Yes, I have a pair of tune schwarzbrenner 38T that came in at 1120g.
Theese are very good wheels. Wide, stiff, brake is very good.. And the hubs roll very nicely.

Sent from my SM-G928F using Tapatalk
iliedanila wrote:
leicaman wrote:
Are there any other options out there that fall around to 1100g mark?


Yes, I have a pair of tune schwarzbrenner 38T that came in at 1120g.
Theese are very good wheels. Wide, stiff, brake is very good.. And the hubs roll very nicely.

Sent from my SM-G928F using Tapatalk


Thanks for the tip. Just looked at them on Starbike and they a pretty damn reasonably priced. My only concern is with get another Tune hub. I had problems with the rear Mag 170 just about the whole time I had them. Not sure I want to take the chance of them being creakers again. How are yours? Silent?

Not silent. I mean it's a tune hub, it's rather loud, but I have no creaking sound from them.
I have theese wheels since the beginning of the month, and did aprox. 300 km on theese. Even off-road (that was not planned) and the wheels are in tip top shape.

Sent from my SM-G928F using Tapatalk

leicaman
Posts: 129
Joined: Fri Mar 14, 2014 3:55 pm

by leicaman

wheelsONfire wrote:I don't really grasp why you need Ultra 24? You might aswell get Stream 38 with Tune (Mig45/Mag150).
They will hit the scale at 1010-1030 grams with stickers.
Mine was 1010-1015 grams.
You get the widest rim Ax currently has at 26mm which will help increase stability.
I think Enve will be atleast 100 grams more. Perhaps braking is better as this is Enves latest revision.
Or if you really skip both these and go for Extralite (which again will lower weight)?
These seems to be cheaper to if that is of relevance?
If you are light and no power house they should work well.
All of them run 20/24 spokes and i would not go below that if i bought a wheelset today.
I have a set with 16/20 spokes, but i wonder how they would be with 20/24.

I do agree that a wider rim make a difference. They claim clinchers benefit more from a wider rim, but i must say i find my two wider rim wheelset both ride more calm and stable than my previous Mavic CCU. Actually i must say the two main things you did note directly, is stability and comfort over CCU.
Some guys like wheels which are super stiff, but to me it translates into harsh ride feel.
Changing tires does not really affect the signum of how the wheel feels. I can easily ride my current wheelsets with narrower tires and still feel that the wider rims are less nervous, the feel less affected by wind that a narrower V-shaped rim.

Even when i built up my latest bike, i directly decided on a wide rim and semi aero rim despite this is a gravel bike.

You can view the Extralite wheels here:
http://www.extralite.com/Products/CyberMax%20C32.htm

I think you can go ahead and ask Starbike what you can get these for. I believe you can get a good price, if you ask!



Thanks for the Stream suggestion. I didn't realise the stream used a wider rim. It is certainly an option although I would probably go for the DT240s rather than extralite or Tune. The last pair of Tune I bought has left a bad taste in my mouth and I don't want to experience the same problems all over again (not that I probably would, but just don't want to risk it).

I wasn't thinking of the Ultra 24T btw, I was looking at the Selection 24 T which uses the DT240s.

I think the Enve 2.2 are still at the top of my list though. They seem pretty robust (especially with the CK R45 hub) and the brake track looks good for if I get caught out in a summer downpour at the top of a mountain. I don't need them to be sub 1000g so the weight of the Enve's is acceptable to me.

NiFTY
Posts: 1493
Joined: Sat May 26, 2012 11:26 pm

by NiFTY

How do you like the carbon ti hubs. Why did you wish you used the extralite hubs instead. How is the lateral stiffness on the carbon-ti rear.

bm0p700f wrote:Extralite hubs require some TLC, the main thing is to keep checking the bearing preload adjuster beyond that there is little that needs doing.

Sub 1000g with these hubs is possible. I did a set with heavier carbon Ti hubs and 38mm deep carbon tubular rims in 20F/24R that weight 1020g. With I had used the extralite's though. Can't say I have noticed any stability issues with the 20.5mm rims I used. They are stiff rims though and that what the extra width does nothing more and that could translate to extra stability but ti will depend on what wheels on fire might mean by this.
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leicaman
Posts: 129
Joined: Fri Mar 14, 2014 3:55 pm

by leicaman

So I decided to go with the Enve 2.2 laced to CK hubs in the end. Apparently there is a little bit of a wait to get them here in Japan.... But I've got plenty of time as I'm (im)patiently waiting in the queue for my frame to be built. All good things come to those who wait, yeah?

leicaman
Posts: 129
Joined: Fri Mar 14, 2014 3:55 pm

by leicaman

My Enve's came in to the bike shop yesterday so I headed on down to Tokyo to pick them up. As soon as I picked up the front wheel, I noticed that a small part of the brake track texture was missing. We are probably taking around 1.5mm in diameter. Then I noticed two more instances of the same, although they were a little smaller. Not sure if they had chipped off or if they had been missing from manufacture. I asked the staff what they thought. They are going to speak to the distributor tomorrow and let me know. So I left empty handed. Still, better to be safe than sorry.

kode54
Posts: 3740
Joined: Tue May 23, 2006 9:39 pm

by kode54

the brake tracks are moulded in. i'm sure it'll be fine...but you should get wheels that are flawless if you're paying that much for them.
- Factor Ostro VAM Disc
- Factor LS Disc
- Specialized Aethos Disc
- Sturdy Ti Allroad Disc
- Guru Praemio R Disc

by Weenie


Visit starbike.com Online Retailer for HighEnd cycling components
Great Prices ✓    Broad Selection ✓    Worldwide Delivery ✓

www.starbike.com



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