Vittoria Graphene Plus tyres

[F45]

Wow, my Google translation of that page is throwing me for a loop.

[Tinea Pedis]

Review is out now: http://bikeboard.at/Board/Die-schnellst ... 2-th217501

The

Folding are faster than tubulars.
Only for Vredestein is reversed.

should go down well in the other threads where the argument is still that tubs roll better/are faster/can probably cure world hunger

[helldiver]

Well, only before you consider this:

Die ZIPP 404 Felgen waren "used" und hatten ausreichend Conti-Carbon-Klebereste drauf. Somit ploppten wir die Tubulars drüber und pumpten sie mit 9 Bar bzw. 11 Bar auf. Der RoWi entspricht also einer dünnen Kleberschicht.

He doesn't speak about any (!) glue layer on the base-tape and about "enough" old glue on the rim. That's actually more improvised glue job then mounting the spare pre-glued tubular after puncture (there is at least some glue on the base-tape). Take a look at this test which also measures differences between various gluing methods: http://www.biketechreview.com/tires_old/images/AFM_tire_testing_rev9.pdf - the CRR difference between properly glued and lightly glued Vittoria EVO Corsa Crono (20) Tubular is 2 watts (11.5W vs 13.5W). And if you take a look at what "lighly glued" means in this test, it's still a hell of lot better/more solid bond then what was used in that Austrian test !
While i really appreciate the effort which was put into the test, i wish they would invest more time into properly gluing the tubular competitors (i know that it would be a lot more time consuming and would require multiple testing sessions, probably not feasible) and maybe the tubulars would test 2-4W (and that's a conservative estimate) faster, which would mean quite a different results .

And the argument is not that tubs roll better - it's that when properly glued (!), they roll the same as clinchers. I'm willing to admit that it takes some dedication to properly glue the tubulars and it's certainly possible to use the inferior gluing method/tape, which is not possible at all on clinchers.

[Tinea Pedis]

And the argument is not that tubs roll better

Yeah it is. Read the threads. This isn't a new debate.


Moreover there's never a proper agreement on what constitutes a 'proper' glue job. So we get stuck in this continual cycle of 'but they weren't glued properly' when a comparison is made (and especially when a tubular comes in worse off).

The Bike Radar test/whatever nomenclature you'd like to use - using real world conditions - I would have expected tubulars to come in the same as clinchers. Didn't happen.

I get it. Riding tubs is like a religion. And like any religion (and this is coming from a Catholic) no amount of the opposing point of view is going to alter a die-hard's belief

[Calnago]

You're catholic? Well, that explains it then [emoji3].
Seriously though, I've ridden a lot of clinchers over the years and only switched to tubulars about 5 years ago, versus the normal way where the old guys grew up riding tubulars. I just like the way they ride and feel and handle. Still much nicer than the clinchers I use (conti 4000s II currently and Vittoria CX Corsas before that, on Campy Neutron wheels). Even if clinchers were "faster" (I can't tell) I'd still ride my tubulars cuz of the superior handling and road feel which is not religion, or psychological. I can truly feel it. Now, let us pray. Lol

[boysa]

+1. Handling and feel are my reasons. Nothing to do with them being faster or slower.

[Wingnut]

Agree when I was growing up as a teenager it was never explained to me by the older crew that singles (tubulars) were faster, only that they felt, handled better and were more lively...jeez if I wanted to go faster I would have trained more!

[TwiggyTN]

And don't forget the rims are generally lighter and stronger for tubular.

Sent from my GT-P5113 using Tapatalk

[F45]

Oh great, another clincher vs tubular argument.

[HammerTime2]

where the argument is still that tubs ... can probably cure world hunger

Only if glued, not if taped*.

* There's a whole denomination within religion thing going on there.

[Tinea Pedis]

Oh great, another clincher vs tubular argument.

Sorry. I'll own that one. Should never have made the comment - provoking the usual reaction to one of the three points. I'd also never once said these (or any clincher) feels better than a tubular, but somehow that made it in too.

Back on topic.

[bm0p700f]

Picking a tyres based on where it has come in the latest test is to me pointless. You pick a tyre based on your experience full stop. 2 or 3 w between a good tub and a good clincher if it is really that or an artifact of the test conditions means nothing to me when I ride.

So I ride a variety of clinchers, tubulars and tubeless tyres. I like then all, I like the tubs the most though because of the ride they give. The nicest ride I have had in a long while was on Sunday. I took the 29er out to do my clubs Sunday road ride. 2.0 inch xc tubulars at 23 psi made for a lovely ride and sod the extra rolling resistance.

If tubs are going to be tested then test them properly or don't bother. There is only one thing worse than no test and that is an bad or unfair test. However reading the article I cannot find any mention of how the tubs where glued.

So the German test is interesting it is also irrelevant and will not change my tyre choices. If I spend my time worrying about those small handful of watts I am first of kidding myself that there are not bigger gains to be had else where and secondly I am forgetting why I ride and compete - because I enjoy it regardless of how fast I happen to be.

[rmerka]

I personally think the rolling resistance thing is over done and the diffs are soooo marginal. I liked TP's review and went ahead and got a couple of the Vittoria tires so you influenced at least one person. 1. Because he liked how grippy they were and 2. because I like Vittoria tires. In the flesh they are appear to be super nice tires. I don't know about this Graphene thing but I like a grippy tire. Rolling resistance differences...meh.

[kgt]

I agree with bm0p700f and rmerka.

[Calnago]

I may try some of their new "Graphene" tubulars next time I have occasion, but only if they don't cut up like their previous casings. Guess the only way to find out is to try them. I never had any luck with the the Corsa CX's... would always get really cut up really quickly. But "grippy" is good.