Gary, mostly just a little dishwash detergent (Dawn) and water, that's it. The only product I've ever used on it was 303 Aerospace Protectant. And I've only used that a couple of times. There seems to be lots of products out there... I'd avoid the silicone types though as you don't want to make a matte finish "shiny". There do seem to be differences even with the 3k weaves that I've seen. Mine was one of the first ones and definitely has a matte clearcoat on top which is very easy to keep clean versus frames with just a plain matte finish, omitting the clear. A friend had a frame resprayed a black matte by Calfee, and I rebuilt it for him. They did a nice job, but a mere touch will leave a mark on that thing. I don't think he'd do matte again because of it. So, it depends. When I had my frame repaired after a crash, it came back with a slight overspray on the top tube (don't get me started). Anyway, after talking to a place that deals with professional car painters etc., they recommended a clay bar, and i used that and voila... it took the slight overspray right off and it was good as new. Pretty happy about that. If there's grease marks or something, I'll just use a little Simple Green to get it off, and rinse with water.
Colnago C64 - Inside and Out
Moderators: MrCurrieinahurry, maxim809, Moderator Team
Last edited by Calnago on Sat Feb 17, 2018 5:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Colnago C64 - The Naked Build; Colnago C60 - PR99; Trek Koppenberg - Where Emonda and Domane Meet;
Unlinked Builds (searchable): Colnago C59 - 5 Years Later; Trek Emonda SL Campagnolo SR; Special Colnago EPQ
Unlinked Builds (searchable): Colnago C59 - 5 Years Later; Trek Emonda SL Campagnolo SR; Special Colnago EPQ
Calnago wrote: ↑Sat Feb 17, 2018 5:51 pmGary, mostly just a little dishwash detergent (Dawn) and water, that's it. The only product I've ever used on it was 303 Aerospace Protectant. And I've only used that a couple of times. There seems to be lots of products out there... I'd avoid the silicone types though as you don't want to make a matte finish "shiny". There do seem to be differences even with the 3k weaves that I've seen. Mine was one of the first ones and definitely has a matte clearcoat on top which is very easy to keep clean versus frames with just a plain matte finish, omitting the clear. A friend had a frame resprayed a black matte by Calfee, and I rebuilt it for him. They did a nice job, but a mere touch will leave a mark on that thing. I don't think he'd do matte again becasue of it. So, it depends. When I had my frame repaired after a crash, it came back with a slight overspray on the top tube (don't get me started). Anyway, after talking to a place that deals with professional car painters etc., they recommended a clay bar, and i used that and voila... it took the slight overspray right off and it was good as new. Pretty happy about that. If there's grease marks or something, I'll just use a little Simple Green to get it off, and rinse with water.
Because of the fashion for Matte colours on cars there are quite a few waxes you can get now designed specifically for Matte finishes.
SwissVax do a good one. They do leave the Matte finish a small bit shinier but they will protect the finish much like a normal wax will do for gloss paint.
https://www.swissvax.co.uk/merchant.mvc ... =SE1015117
( No affiliation to this company just the first hit I got on google)
Visit starbike.com Online Retailer for HighEnd cycling components
Great Prices ✓ Broad Selection ✓ Worldwide Delivery ✓
www.starbike.com
Not planning on highjacking this thread and turning it into a bike cleaning thread but having been involved in car detailing for years there’s a huge overlap with caring for the paintwork on your most cherished whether it be car paintwork or bike paintwork. I thought I’d just share some simple tips that will mean getting your Colnago (and any other bike) looking its best from the off and how to keep it looking stunning.
The first thing to say is never, never, never ever use a foam sponge to wash your bikes with. Dirt will get stuck to the surface and scratch across your paintwork leaving microscopic scratches on it and this will have a drastic effect on how deep that shine will be.
The second thing to say is we’re talking about polishing. That brings up thoughts and images of elbow grease and hard work. You should never rub at paintwork to get it clean. It doesn’t matter what product or fancy cloth you’re using it will result in scratches as above. There’s a product somewhere that will require minimal effort to remove every mark.
I’ll give some tips on getting a frame perfectly clean and polished up first, so probably best done with a near naked frame (whether it be new or old) and then follow up with the simple tips of how to keep it looking pristine.
I would always rinse a frame or bike with water first of all just using a hosepipe to try to remove as much muck as I can. The less you physically touch it the better. Once rinsed I would recommend washing it. A standard All-Purpose Cleaner is ideal. Meguiars is as good as anyone to look at. Or if you’re really going OTT use Meguiars gold class! But use a microfibre wash sponge or even a sheepskin one but no rubbing remember! Quick rinse off with a hose once done and let it drip dry. Another thing to say is never wash it or let it dry in direct sunlight. That’s the fastest way to water spots and they can be a pain to get off. If you want to dry it then use a microfibre cloth. Dab it don’t rub!
The initial wash might get it clean but there can still be lots of marks particularly tar spots. Best is to use a solvent based tar remover. Again just dab it on with a microfibre cloth and let it do its thing over a minute or so. Keep dabbing fresh solvent on every now and then until it just runs away with no effort and no rubbing on that paintwork. If you’ve used solvent then it would be recommended to quickly wash it off again after. If it’s not tar spots to get off then you can use a detailing clay bar as mentioned by Cal. However there are different grades so absolutely go for the light or finer grades rather than the heavy or aggressive. Bikes are tricky to use clay bars on as they’re quite small with lots of edges so I’d probably only use them on straight areas.
Now if you’re going for the ultimate in cleaning then you could spray it over with Gyeon Iron or a similar product
. This will disolve away any other possible remaining imperfections but I’d only do this on a completely naked frame. Again wash it afterwards.
So by the end of this you’ll have a totally spotless frame but with no protection on it at all. Run your finger across the paintwork anf it will be slick and smooth with no imperfections felt. An absolute no no when it comes to polishing is to use something like Autoglym super resin polish or any of the colour magic style polishes. They’re quite aggressive and will eat into your top coat. Yes they’ll look good (because they’ve eaten away a bit of topcoat!) but how much top coat do you have? We’ve no idea
. Get through that with too much polish and it’s paint you’re cutting away at and the fast track to a respray. Not something I want to do with an Art-decor finish!
So to put protection on and really bring out that deep shine and lustre and a mirror-like quality, especially with dark colours, I’d recommend some acrylic waxes. You can spend fortunes on various carnauba waxes and good luck to you if you want to do that. Personally I use Carlack Acrylic Kit for cars and my bikes. It’s simple wipe on wipe off (with microfibre cloths) and gives an amazing shine. Plus it’s super quick to do. It’s also a filler so those microscopic scratches that you may already have it will help to lessen the impact of those and bring out the shine even more. And that’s it.
Once you’ve done that to clean the bike in between rides I just wash and dry with the APC as mentioned earlier. If I want to give a really quick polish I’ll use something like Meguiars Last Touch that gets most superficial marks off.
There may well be threads on here that do detail what others do to wash their bikes but this is a Colnago thread and they deserve something special as they’re not normally bikes that get sold. Or shouldn’t be! I’m not affiliated to any of the companies or products listed and there’s many others out there. I don’t fuss too much in the season but do spruce it up as documented once a year as it’s my dry weather summer bike only.
The first thing to say is never, never, never ever use a foam sponge to wash your bikes with. Dirt will get stuck to the surface and scratch across your paintwork leaving microscopic scratches on it and this will have a drastic effect on how deep that shine will be.
The second thing to say is we’re talking about polishing. That brings up thoughts and images of elbow grease and hard work. You should never rub at paintwork to get it clean. It doesn’t matter what product or fancy cloth you’re using it will result in scratches as above. There’s a product somewhere that will require minimal effort to remove every mark.
I’ll give some tips on getting a frame perfectly clean and polished up first, so probably best done with a near naked frame (whether it be new or old) and then follow up with the simple tips of how to keep it looking pristine.
I would always rinse a frame or bike with water first of all just using a hosepipe to try to remove as much muck as I can. The less you physically touch it the better. Once rinsed I would recommend washing it. A standard All-Purpose Cleaner is ideal. Meguiars is as good as anyone to look at. Or if you’re really going OTT use Meguiars gold class! But use a microfibre wash sponge or even a sheepskin one but no rubbing remember! Quick rinse off with a hose once done and let it drip dry. Another thing to say is never wash it or let it dry in direct sunlight. That’s the fastest way to water spots and they can be a pain to get off. If you want to dry it then use a microfibre cloth. Dab it don’t rub!
The initial wash might get it clean but there can still be lots of marks particularly tar spots. Best is to use a solvent based tar remover. Again just dab it on with a microfibre cloth and let it do its thing over a minute or so. Keep dabbing fresh solvent on every now and then until it just runs away with no effort and no rubbing on that paintwork. If you’ve used solvent then it would be recommended to quickly wash it off again after. If it’s not tar spots to get off then you can use a detailing clay bar as mentioned by Cal. However there are different grades so absolutely go for the light or finer grades rather than the heavy or aggressive. Bikes are tricky to use clay bars on as they’re quite small with lots of edges so I’d probably only use them on straight areas.
Now if you’re going for the ultimate in cleaning then you could spray it over with Gyeon Iron or a similar product
. This will disolve away any other possible remaining imperfections but I’d only do this on a completely naked frame. Again wash it afterwards.So by the end of this you’ll have a totally spotless frame but with no protection on it at all. Run your finger across the paintwork anf it will be slick and smooth with no imperfections felt. An absolute no no when it comes to polishing is to use something like Autoglym super resin polish or any of the colour magic style polishes. They’re quite aggressive and will eat into your top coat. Yes they’ll look good (because they’ve eaten away a bit of topcoat!) but how much top coat do you have? We’ve no idea
. Get through that with too much polish and it’s paint you’re cutting away at and the fast track to a respray. Not something I want to do with an Art-decor finish!So to put protection on and really bring out that deep shine and lustre and a mirror-like quality, especially with dark colours, I’d recommend some acrylic waxes. You can spend fortunes on various carnauba waxes and good luck to you if you want to do that. Personally I use Carlack Acrylic Kit for cars and my bikes. It’s simple wipe on wipe off (with microfibre cloths) and gives an amazing shine. Plus it’s super quick to do. It’s also a filler so those microscopic scratches that you may already have it will help to lessen the impact of those and bring out the shine even more. And that’s it.
Once you’ve done that to clean the bike in between rides I just wash and dry with the APC as mentioned earlier. If I want to give a really quick polish I’ll use something like Meguiars Last Touch that gets most superficial marks off.
There may well be threads on here that do detail what others do to wash their bikes but this is a Colnago thread and they deserve something special as they’re not normally bikes that get sold. Or shouldn’t be! I’m not affiliated to any of the companies or products listed and there’s many others out there. I don’t fuss too much in the season but do spruce it up as documented once a year as it’s my dry weather summer bike only.
@C60rider: That's very good info right there, and was the long version (is that even possible) of what I described. I use the Meguiars products too, with Meguiars Gold Class as a wash sometimes, as I do my car at the same time. I should have emphasized that the clay bar I used was very fine and on the advice of an expert who actually had my frame in hand to be able to know what would probably work. I only used it because I was a bit distraught after receiving my C59 Five Years Later back from a repair only to find a light overspray on the top tube. The clay bar worked perfectly for that. If I get some tar on the frame, which you might going over freshly done roads or chipseal, then I would use some "Bug and Tar Remover" just for those isolated spots and rinse well with water. Yes, I guess a Colnago does deserve some extra love with a nice paint job. And if it's a brand new frame, all naked and stuff, with a gloss finish I usually can't resist giving it a nice coat or two of Meguiars Ultimate Liquid Wax (Pure Synthetic Poymer ).
Ha, this stuff even smells nice. Date nite!
). Ha, this stuff even smells nice. Date nite!
Colnago C64 - The Naked Build; Colnago C60 - PR99; Trek Koppenberg - Where Emonda and Domane Meet;
Unlinked Builds (searchable): Colnago C59 - 5 Years Later; Trek Emonda SL Campagnolo SR; Special Colnago EPQ
Unlinked Builds (searchable): Colnago C59 - 5 Years Later; Trek Emonda SL Campagnolo SR; Special Colnago EPQ
Cal that recess is going to collect spilled energy whatever worse than the bottom of a Speed Concept, and I thing you know how foul those can be.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Cysco Ti custom Campy SR mechanical (6.9);Berk custom (5.6); Serotta Ottrott(6.
; Anvil Custom steel Etap;1996 Colnago Technos Record
; Anvil Custom steel Etap;1996 Colnago Technos RecordYeah, you're probably right... no, of course you're right, no doubt stuff will collect there. My only saving grace is that I only put pure water in my waterbottles. And no, I've never ever worked on a Speed Concept. That's a tri-guy thing right? Funny socks, tank tops, peanut butter snacks taped all over their bikes... ya, I know the type. I guess I don't mind the recess once a bottle cage hides it.
Colnago C64 - The Naked Build; Colnago C60 - PR99; Trek Koppenberg - Where Emonda and Domane Meet;
Unlinked Builds (searchable): Colnago C59 - 5 Years Later; Trek Emonda SL Campagnolo SR; Special Colnago EPQ
Unlinked Builds (searchable): Colnago C59 - 5 Years Later; Trek Emonda SL Campagnolo SR; Special Colnago EPQ
Perhaps eventually it'd fill up so completely with goo and grime you would have a nice, flat mounting area again. Result
.
Well, after our first couple of dates, I found myself starting to think about potential build issues and what it would be like living day to day with this beauty. When things start getting too integrated you can run into all kinds of things... like being locked into using proprietary parts, or all of a sudden some routine kind of task becomes a major undertaking. Certain examples of internal cable routing come to mind. When internal routing can just pass through a tube unabated by ubstructions or convoluted bends, that's a good thing and makes for a clean looking build, a more protected build, and a better functioning build. I was kind of locked in my thinking to the way I've handled the cabling situation on my other internally routed Colnagos... that being to create my own super smooth cable guide out of tubing. It gets around the bottom bracket area without having to rub on any hard edges and keeps it free from dirt and sticky sports drink that finds its way down there. My solution in the past has been something like this...
The grub seal on top of the opening to the front derailleur prevents all that fine crud that would otherwise find it's way in there just by being thrown directly at it from the rear tire spinning.
Trouble with the C64 is that there's no slot in the BB to fish cables out as you install or replace a derailleur cable. I could barely visualize how I could get the cables into the tubing before I installed the BB cups and crankset, let alone how I would do a simple cable replacement after the cranks were all in. Life was made easier thanks to @glepore earlier in this thread. The solution, at least maybe for an initial install was obvious, at least to him, from his roach clip days... and once I learned what a "Hemostat" was, I fired up Amazon and yesterday lo and behold.... here's what arrived... both for $10 or so...
Ok... these looked like wonderful, and necessary, instruments to complete the task at hand. So long as the crankset and bottom bracket weren't in the way I didn't see a problem with the install, but it still bothered me thinking about what would be required for just a simple derailleur cable replacement down the road. While removing the crank wouldn't be a big deal for me, I could easily foresee it being a huge pain in the ass for someone less mechanically inclined or without all the tools, or even the desire. What was blocking my thinking was that for the C60, C59, EPQ etc the entry ports at the top of the downtube for the cables were small, fixed, and just big enough to route a cable through, so your only access to the cable would be when it came out the other side down by the bottom bracket. Funny how we get stuck sometimes in our ways of thinking. Then, it struck me one night just lying in bed... that the port in the middle of the downtube... it is removeable, and there's probably a sizeable hole there. Depending on how big it was, I just knew that therein lied the answer. And as such... scrap all the above; I just wrote it down as part of my "stream of consciousness".
So, the next day I asked for yet another date with my new mistress, and when I explained that I really need to get to know her a bit more intimately before this could ever go anywhere for real... of course she jumped at the opportunity. Again, who wouldn't.
The port... that controversial little port... just one little screw holds the cover on. I saw that someone in another thread complained about the port cover not being a tight fit and water could just seep in. I did not find that at all. It seemed to be a very tight fit, so much so that when I removed the screw holding it on, it didn't just pop off and I thought it may have had some added glue holding it there. Anyway, first of all I wanted to mock up a real cable run to see how the outer housing would look and function with bars attached. I took some 44cm Bonatrager bars left over from my Emonda SL build and slapped them on, complete with the left over cables and levers still attached. Wow... it all came together beautifully, and just flowed around and into the port seamlessly with no kinks at all... here's some views at different angles...
Suffice to say, there is enough cable there (only ran the left one, because the right one will be exactly the same) to turn the handlebars fully and crash them into the top tube. You, or the bike, may or may not escape totally unscathed from such a mishap, but at least the cables won't get ripped out because they're too short.
I'm very happy upon seeing all of this, because at no point does a cable housing touch the frame, and the line from shifter to port entry is as smooth and graceful as can be. This girl is looking better with every passing moment.
Now, let's contrast that for a moment with one of the bikes provided for the professional reviewers at the official Colnago C64 launch on last Friday, February 9th, 2018 in Lanzarote...
I remember seeing a pic of one of the bikes with cabling job that was just a bodge,... cables way too long, etc. And I remember one reviewer writing that his shifting was really quite annoyingly off. Well, with cabling like that I'm not surprised (must find that pic). Ok, I couldn't find that pic again, but basically the cables were way too long and creating bends where there shouldn't have been, etc. But even the pic above, showing a pretty decent build with cables routed the traditional way, there are still way more bends than the way I am currently routing things wherever possible, and on those builds in all the review photos they all have those cable sleeves on the housings to protect the headtube. I never really understood how those things "protect" the headtube... it just means that instead of the housing grinding the dirt into your headtube, the sleeve is. To protect your headtube from that kind of abrasion, the only real way to do it imo is to use the clear stick on protectors, which even though they are clear, are still ugly.
[edit]: I found the pic I originally wanted to post above... I'll just leave the one above and post the original "talking point" here...
So... back to the naked beauty before me... let's get intimate...
The port cover is a good fit and is held on by a single screw... remove that and you have the port cover in hand...
The port itself has good access and I would easily be able to route a Teflon sleeve and grab it through that hole, one way or another, and I can't wait to use my new "hemostats" (I just love saying that word, makes me feel like a doctor of sorts)...
The actual hole in the port was smaller than I expected so I had to fish around a bit for the opening. Always takes a bit longer the first time as you get the lay of the land. And it was dark down there... but once found every thing slid through nicely...
In that other thread I mentioned where a poster also complained about the cable holes in the port and how if he was using etap or something that water would just flow through. He was surmising that he'd possibly plug it up with a glob of Sugru or something. Perhaps he hadn't looked in his little box of Colnago goodies thoroughly enough yet, but for those situations all is taken care of with the supplied alternative port cover... Just one hole for the screw that secures it for the frame, otherwise a very clean looking port cover. No need for Sugru here.
He also complained that he thought the cable port covers were flimsy and wouldn't stay put or last... hmmm... I didn't get that at all in looking at them, and they seemed to be some of the sturdiest and well thought out port covers I've ever seen...
And all three... the alternative port cover for the downtube, and the front and rear port covers for the rear brake entry and exit holes...
There are also a few other non-descript plugs for use in the front derailleur electric port (if you're using mechanical), then a couple for the end of the driveside chainstay where your derailleur cable (either mechanical or electric) exits.
On to the cable routing solution next post...
The grub seal on top of the opening to the front derailleur prevents all that fine crud that would otherwise find it's way in there just by being thrown directly at it from the rear tire spinning.
Trouble with the C64 is that there's no slot in the BB to fish cables out as you install or replace a derailleur cable. I could barely visualize how I could get the cables into the tubing before I installed the BB cups and crankset, let alone how I would do a simple cable replacement after the cranks were all in. Life was made easier thanks to @glepore earlier in this thread. The solution, at least maybe for an initial install was obvious, at least to him, from his roach clip days... and once I learned what a "Hemostat" was, I fired up Amazon and yesterday lo and behold.... here's what arrived... both for $10 or so...
Ok... these looked like wonderful, and necessary, instruments to complete the task at hand. So long as the crankset and bottom bracket weren't in the way I didn't see a problem with the install, but it still bothered me thinking about what would be required for just a simple derailleur cable replacement down the road. While removing the crank wouldn't be a big deal for me, I could easily foresee it being a huge pain in the ass for someone less mechanically inclined or without all the tools, or even the desire. What was blocking my thinking was that for the C60, C59, EPQ etc the entry ports at the top of the downtube for the cables were small, fixed, and just big enough to route a cable through, so your only access to the cable would be when it came out the other side down by the bottom bracket. Funny how we get stuck sometimes in our ways of thinking. Then, it struck me one night just lying in bed... that the port in the middle of the downtube... it is removeable, and there's probably a sizeable hole there. Depending on how big it was, I just knew that therein lied the answer. And as such... scrap all the above; I just wrote it down as part of my "stream of consciousness".
So, the next day I asked for yet another date with my new mistress, and when I explained that I really need to get to know her a bit more intimately before this could ever go anywhere for real... of course she jumped at the opportunity. Again, who wouldn't.
The port... that controversial little port... just one little screw holds the cover on. I saw that someone in another thread complained about the port cover not being a tight fit and water could just seep in. I did not find that at all. It seemed to be a very tight fit, so much so that when I removed the screw holding it on, it didn't just pop off and I thought it may have had some added glue holding it there. Anyway, first of all I wanted to mock up a real cable run to see how the outer housing would look and function with bars attached. I took some 44cm Bonatrager bars left over from my Emonda SL build and slapped them on, complete with the left over cables and levers still attached. Wow... it all came together beautifully, and just flowed around and into the port seamlessly with no kinks at all... here's some views at different angles...
Suffice to say, there is enough cable there (only ran the left one, because the right one will be exactly the same) to turn the handlebars fully and crash them into the top tube. You, or the bike, may or may not escape totally unscathed from such a mishap, but at least the cables won't get ripped out because they're too short.
I'm very happy upon seeing all of this, because at no point does a cable housing touch the frame, and the line from shifter to port entry is as smooth and graceful as can be. This girl is looking better with every passing moment.
Now, let's contrast that for a moment with one of the bikes provided for the professional reviewers at the official Colnago C64 launch on last Friday, February 9th, 2018 in Lanzarote...
I remember seeing a pic of one of the bikes with cabling job that was just a bodge,... cables way too long, etc. And I remember one reviewer writing that his shifting was really quite annoyingly off. Well, with cabling like that I'm not surprised (must find that pic). Ok, I couldn't find that pic again, but basically the cables were way too long and creating bends where there shouldn't have been, etc. But even the pic above, showing a pretty decent build with cables routed the traditional way, there are still way more bends than the way I am currently routing things wherever possible, and on those builds in all the review photos they all have those cable sleeves on the housings to protect the headtube. I never really understood how those things "protect" the headtube... it just means that instead of the housing grinding the dirt into your headtube, the sleeve is. To protect your headtube from that kind of abrasion, the only real way to do it imo is to use the clear stick on protectors, which even though they are clear, are still ugly.
[edit]: I found the pic I originally wanted to post above... I'll just leave the one above and post the original "talking point" here...
So... back to the naked beauty before me... let's get intimate...
The port cover is a good fit and is held on by a single screw... remove that and you have the port cover in hand...
The port itself has good access and I would easily be able to route a Teflon sleeve and grab it through that hole, one way or another, and I can't wait to use my new "hemostats" (I just love saying that word, makes me feel like a doctor of sorts)...
The actual hole in the port was smaller than I expected so I had to fish around a bit for the opening. Always takes a bit longer the first time as you get the lay of the land. And it was dark down there... but once found every thing slid through nicely...
In that other thread I mentioned where a poster also complained about the cable holes in the port and how if he was using etap or something that water would just flow through. He was surmising that he'd possibly plug it up with a glob of Sugru or something. Perhaps he hadn't looked in his little box of Colnago goodies thoroughly enough yet, but for those situations all is taken care of with the supplied alternative port cover... Just one hole for the screw that secures it for the frame, otherwise a very clean looking port cover. No need for Sugru here.
He also complained that he thought the cable port covers were flimsy and wouldn't stay put or last... hmmm... I didn't get that at all in looking at them, and they seemed to be some of the sturdiest and well thought out port covers I've ever seen...
And all three... the alternative port cover for the downtube, and the front and rear port covers for the rear brake entry and exit holes...
There are also a few other non-descript plugs for use in the front derailleur electric port (if you're using mechanical), then a couple for the end of the driveside chainstay where your derailleur cable (either mechanical or electric) exits.
On to the cable routing solution next post...
Last edited by Calnago on Tue Feb 27, 2018 5:48 pm, edited 4 times in total.
Colnago C64 - The Naked Build; Colnago C60 - PR99; Trek Koppenberg - Where Emonda and Domane Meet;
Unlinked Builds (searchable): Colnago C59 - 5 Years Later; Trek Emonda SL Campagnolo SR; Special Colnago EPQ
Unlinked Builds (searchable): Colnago C59 - 5 Years Later; Trek Emonda SL Campagnolo SR; Special Colnago EPQ
Well, it's been a week since I met my new muse... and though she's gotten quite a lot of attention during her first few days on the scene... all her other suitors have long since left her, content with just one date... a brief ridearound, and then pfft, gone... as quickly as they arrived, without so much as a kiss goodbye. And then they go write about her, as if they really got to know her beyond the pretty face. Well, my love... I'm still here... so let us continue getting acquainted...
Just to finish up the cable routing scenario from the last post... let's start with what the bottom bracket will look like once everything is done. Remember those two pieces of tubing I had... well, here they are inserted into appropriate holes of the bottom bracket...
The tubing shown above barely fits into the holes as it's outer diameter is just over 3mm. As much as I like this stuff where I can use it, I'm almost out, and I've got some new stuff on order which is not quite as large and thick walled but should do the trick nicely and fit more scenarios. I should mention that the stuff shown above doesn't even work so well it seems with the coated Shimano cables, as the inner diameter is just shy of 1.6mm, and while absolutely perfect for Campy stainless steel cables, tends to be a little snug for the Shimano coated jobs. Here's what they used on the reviewers bikes at launch... just your basic sheathing which does the job too I guess... especially in this nice smooth large radius application...
As an example of where the thick stuff I used is really great... the edge of the chainstay bridge on the C59's is one spot where the front derailleur cable rubs directly against... so that thick stuff just provides such a smooth buffer against it.
And now, this is how easy it would be to replace a cable...
1) Remove the cable locking nut at either the front or rear derailleur.
2) Use an awl or pick of some sort just to get underneath the tubing and pull it up enough so that you can remove it from the cable.
3) Remove the port in the downtube.
4) Run a piece of sheathing along the cable up through the downtube so that it exits out the port.
5) Remove the old cable, install and run the new cable back down through the sheathing guide you installed.
6) Remove the guide and reinstall the short piece of tubing and run the cable back through the chainstay to the rear derailleur.
Easy peasy. No need to remove the crank or any of that nonsense. I'm sure some of you are used to doing this and thinking... well, duh... what's so special about that. I guess nothing, except without that port in the downtube it was impossible to do this on previous Colnagos, and I always had to as a minimum remove the bb guide along with my tubing, meaning I had to detach both cables, then kind of fit everything back in and try to line up that finicky little bb guide bolt with the bb shell just right to ensure I didn't strip the threads. This will make things much easier, I'm sure.
Gotta run now, but will be back to take a closer look at the BB shell and compare it to the C60 BB and talk about the changes to the tubes, in particular the downtube.
Just to finish up the cable routing scenario from the last post... let's start with what the bottom bracket will look like once everything is done. Remember those two pieces of tubing I had... well, here they are inserted into appropriate holes of the bottom bracket...
The tubing shown above barely fits into the holes as it's outer diameter is just over 3mm. As much as I like this stuff where I can use it, I'm almost out, and I've got some new stuff on order which is not quite as large and thick walled but should do the trick nicely and fit more scenarios. I should mention that the stuff shown above doesn't even work so well it seems with the coated Shimano cables, as the inner diameter is just shy of 1.6mm, and while absolutely perfect for Campy stainless steel cables, tends to be a little snug for the Shimano coated jobs. Here's what they used on the reviewers bikes at launch... just your basic sheathing which does the job too I guess... especially in this nice smooth large radius application...
As an example of where the thick stuff I used is really great... the edge of the chainstay bridge on the C59's is one spot where the front derailleur cable rubs directly against... so that thick stuff just provides such a smooth buffer against it.
And now, this is how easy it would be to replace a cable...
1) Remove the cable locking nut at either the front or rear derailleur.
2) Use an awl or pick of some sort just to get underneath the tubing and pull it up enough so that you can remove it from the cable.
3) Remove the port in the downtube.
4) Run a piece of sheathing along the cable up through the downtube so that it exits out the port.
5) Remove the old cable, install and run the new cable back down through the sheathing guide you installed.
6) Remove the guide and reinstall the short piece of tubing and run the cable back through the chainstay to the rear derailleur.
Easy peasy. No need to remove the crank or any of that nonsense. I'm sure some of you are used to doing this and thinking... well, duh... what's so special about that. I guess nothing, except without that port in the downtube it was impossible to do this on previous Colnagos, and I always had to as a minimum remove the bb guide along with my tubing, meaning I had to detach both cables, then kind of fit everything back in and try to line up that finicky little bb guide bolt with the bb shell just right to ensure I didn't strip the threads. This will make things much easier, I'm sure.
Gotta run now, but will be back to take a closer look at the BB shell and compare it to the C60 BB and talk about the changes to the tubes, in particular the downtube.
Last edited by Calnago on Mon Feb 19, 2018 6:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Colnago C64 - The Naked Build; Colnago C60 - PR99; Trek Koppenberg - Where Emonda and Domane Meet;
Unlinked Builds (searchable): Colnago C59 - 5 Years Later; Trek Emonda SL Campagnolo SR; Special Colnago EPQ
Unlinked Builds (searchable): Colnago C59 - 5 Years Later; Trek Emonda SL Campagnolo SR; Special Colnago EPQ
Quick look comparing the bottom brackets of the new C64 and the C60...
I really do like the integrated cable guide in the BB of the C64. The lugs for the chainstays extend quite a bit further rearward than the C60. And the downtube is a bit narrower at the BB junction.
Why narrower you ask?... well I've read a few things, from making it narrower just to better match the overall profile of the bike aesthetically. Ok, maybe. And I've heard that it was to provide a bit more clearance in case of chain drop. What I haven't heard is that it was intentionally designed for any sort of "ride tuning" over the C60. Any ride tuning of the C64 is pretty much mostly in the seattube, seatcluster lug, and seatpost combination I think. So... the slight narrowing of the downtube (only about 3-4mm) I'm gonna say is primarily a minor "bug fix", so to speak. What bug is that? In the event of chain drop on the inside, the C60's downtube is very close to the inner chainring, potentially causing a chain to get squeezed in between the ring and the downtube. This was all news to me, as I have never once experienced a chain drop on my C60. So I wanted a closer look on my own C60...
Positioning my C60 so that I could mock up a chain drop to see what happens I can indeed see how the gap between the chainring and the downtube is pretty narrow...
Here's my C60 with chain engaged nicely on the small ring...
Now, lets just knock it off on purpose by lifting it off and seeing where it wants to go on the inside...
And a closeup of the offending narrow channel of passage between downtube and a complete drop...
Ok... I guess I can see how that'd be a little tight, and in fact someone earlier in the thread said he dropped his chain in this area more than once. So, while I haven't personally experienced a chain drop, I could see where if one did how that area on the C60 is likely to take a bit of a hit moreso than on the C64, which is a bit more generous with the gap at that particular point.
While we're on the subject of chain drop, Colnago supplies it's own chaincatcher...
My advice on their chaincatcher... chuck it and get yourself a K-Edge Pro or any chaincatcher that provides independent adjustment separate from the securing bolt for the front derailleur. Getting the front derailleur perfectly aligned with the chainrings on today's groupsets is such a critical factor in ensuring good front shifting, that having to simultaneously mess with getting the chain catcher perfectly adjusted via the same bolt is just too much to ask. With the K-edge, you lock down the front derailleur alignment and torque, and then you can adjust the chaincatcher's position separately.
I really do like the integrated cable guide in the BB of the C64. The lugs for the chainstays extend quite a bit further rearward than the C60. And the downtube is a bit narrower at the BB junction.
Why narrower you ask?... well I've read a few things, from making it narrower just to better match the overall profile of the bike aesthetically. Ok, maybe. And I've heard that it was to provide a bit more clearance in case of chain drop. What I haven't heard is that it was intentionally designed for any sort of "ride tuning" over the C60. Any ride tuning of the C64 is pretty much mostly in the seattube, seatcluster lug, and seatpost combination I think. So... the slight narrowing of the downtube (only about 3-4mm) I'm gonna say is primarily a minor "bug fix", so to speak. What bug is that? In the event of chain drop on the inside, the C60's downtube is very close to the inner chainring, potentially causing a chain to get squeezed in between the ring and the downtube. This was all news to me, as I have never once experienced a chain drop on my C60. So I wanted a closer look on my own C60...
Positioning my C60 so that I could mock up a chain drop to see what happens I can indeed see how the gap between the chainring and the downtube is pretty narrow...
Here's my C60 with chain engaged nicely on the small ring...
Now, lets just knock it off on purpose by lifting it off and seeing where it wants to go on the inside...
And a closeup of the offending narrow channel of passage between downtube and a complete drop...
Ok... I guess I can see how that'd be a little tight, and in fact someone earlier in the thread said he dropped his chain in this area more than once. So, while I haven't personally experienced a chain drop, I could see where if one did how that area on the C60 is likely to take a bit of a hit moreso than on the C64, which is a bit more generous with the gap at that particular point.
While we're on the subject of chain drop, Colnago supplies it's own chaincatcher...
My advice on their chaincatcher... chuck it and get yourself a K-Edge Pro or any chaincatcher that provides independent adjustment separate from the securing bolt for the front derailleur. Getting the front derailleur perfectly aligned with the chainrings on today's groupsets is such a critical factor in ensuring good front shifting, that having to simultaneously mess with getting the chain catcher perfectly adjusted via the same bolt is just too much to ask. With the K-edge, you lock down the front derailleur alignment and torque, and then you can adjust the chaincatcher's position separately.
Last edited by Calnago on Tue Feb 20, 2018 12:50 am, edited 1 time in total.
Colnago C64 - The Naked Build; Colnago C60 - PR99; Trek Koppenberg - Where Emonda and Domane Meet;
Unlinked Builds (searchable): Colnago C59 - 5 Years Later; Trek Emonda SL Campagnolo SR; Special Colnago EPQ
Unlinked Builds (searchable): Colnago C59 - 5 Years Later; Trek Emonda SL Campagnolo SR; Special Colnago EPQ
So, at this point I think I've just got a couple more things to talk about before taking a bit of a break and going off to ponder whether I'm chucking it all and running off with my new mistress.
Tire clearance... such a big deal these days. Personally, I'm totally fine with being able to run 25mm tubulars on any road bike. I can do that on my C59, but clinchers are a real crapshoot, and the ultimate functional size really depends on both tire and the width of the clincher you're mounting it on. I have some 27mm Veloflex Vlanderens (tubular) that are mounted on Campagnolo Bora Ultra 50's. While they fit in the rear of my C60, the clearance at the fork is definitely not enough to be functionally useable. Enter the C64 and all is good with these wheels. They say that max tire clearance is 28mm, and I'd say you'd best stick to that recommendation, especially if you're running clinchers that may end up being bigger than that.
It looks to me like the tightest spot on the whole bike isn't even under the rear brake bridge or the front fork, but between the chainstays. The left stay is massive. The distance between the widest point between the chainstays where the tire would bulge the most by my measurment is 35.5mm. With my 27mm Vlanderens in there there was strong clearance of 4mm on the drive side and just slightly less on the non drive side... It was fine for these tires as it would be for 28mm tires. Any larger, and I don't know... you'd have to test it out to see if when they flexed they rubbed on the chainstays...
Hmmm... looking at the pictures I've just posted makes it look like there's less clearance than there actually is. These wheels/tires would be so fine in this bike, and I wouldn't say that if there wasn't good functional clearance there. At the tops of the tires, rear and front, we have this...
Rear...
Front...
Ok... I'm going for a spin myself now, it's so nice outside (albeit a bit cold)... and then I have maybe just a couple more items to talk about before the big finale and wrapup... Whuhoo!
Tire clearance... such a big deal these days. Personally, I'm totally fine with being able to run 25mm tubulars on any road bike. I can do that on my C59, but clinchers are a real crapshoot, and the ultimate functional size really depends on both tire and the width of the clincher you're mounting it on. I have some 27mm Veloflex Vlanderens (tubular) that are mounted on Campagnolo Bora Ultra 50's. While they fit in the rear of my C60, the clearance at the fork is definitely not enough to be functionally useable. Enter the C64 and all is good with these wheels. They say that max tire clearance is 28mm, and I'd say you'd best stick to that recommendation, especially if you're running clinchers that may end up being bigger than that.
It looks to me like the tightest spot on the whole bike isn't even under the rear brake bridge or the front fork, but between the chainstays. The left stay is massive. The distance between the widest point between the chainstays where the tire would bulge the most by my measurment is 35.5mm. With my 27mm Vlanderens in there there was strong clearance of 4mm on the drive side and just slightly less on the non drive side... It was fine for these tires as it would be for 28mm tires. Any larger, and I don't know... you'd have to test it out to see if when they flexed they rubbed on the chainstays...
Hmmm... looking at the pictures I've just posted makes it look like there's less clearance than there actually is. These wheels/tires would be so fine in this bike, and I wouldn't say that if there wasn't good functional clearance there. At the tops of the tires, rear and front, we have this...
Rear...
Front...
Ok... I'm going for a spin myself now, it's so nice outside (albeit a bit cold)... and then I have maybe just a couple more items to talk about before the big finale and wrapup... Whuhoo!
Colnago C64 - The Naked Build; Colnago C60 - PR99; Trek Koppenberg - Where Emonda and Domane Meet;
Unlinked Builds (searchable): Colnago C59 - 5 Years Later; Trek Emonda SL Campagnolo SR; Special Colnago EPQ
Unlinked Builds (searchable): Colnago C59 - 5 Years Later; Trek Emonda SL Campagnolo SR; Special Colnago EPQ
Hey now, I wouldn't necessarily call it "complaining" on the cable ports.. meh.. 
Good to see them providing different adapters for the down tube rather than having to buy one like for that of my Cento10. Its amazing how frame makers try to push the extra top line margins when they require customers to buy additional components that should have otherwise came with the price of the frame itself. Even the proprietary seat post, came with rail clamps for aluminum saddle rails and would need a different rail guide for every different maker (ie Fizik, Selle Italia, Selle San Marco)..
That integrated cable guide is super neat and great job with the plastic outter covers. I always wonder how the elongated cable exit port on the C60 would fare against the elements.. I know, probably over-thinking but when it comes down to grime and grit, anything that large can tend to raise a brow.
I've never had issues with the chain falling off on the inside..rather my Clav SE, despite using the required spacer on the drive side spindle, still had the inner chainring rubbing against the outside of the chainstay.. It took another spacer to alleviate this issue but probably threw the Q-Factor off quite a bit.
The bike is turning into a real stunner.. more pics, more pics!!!!
Good to see them providing different adapters for the down tube rather than having to buy one like for that of my Cento10. Its amazing how frame makers try to push the extra top line margins when they require customers to buy additional components that should have otherwise came with the price of the frame itself. Even the proprietary seat post, came with rail clamps for aluminum saddle rails and would need a different rail guide for every different maker (ie Fizik, Selle Italia, Selle San Marco).. That integrated cable guide is super neat and great job with the plastic outter covers. I always wonder how the elongated cable exit port on the C60 would fare against the elements.. I know, probably over-thinking but when it comes down to grime and grit, anything that large can tend to raise a brow.
I've never had issues with the chain falling off on the inside..rather my Clav SE, despite using the required spacer on the drive side spindle, still had the inner chainring rubbing against the outside of the chainstay.. It took another spacer to alleviate this issue but probably threw the Q-Factor off quite a bit.
The bike is turning into a real stunner.. more pics, more pics!!!!
THE PAST: 2005 C'dale R700, 2006 Spesh S-Works Tarmac Gerolsteiner, 2009 Pinarello Dogma FPX My Way, 2011 Time RXR VIP
THE PRESENT: 2016 Colnago C60 ST01, 2017 Wilier Cento 10 Ramato, Cinelli Gazetta
THE FUTURE:
THE PRESENT: 2016 Colnago C60 ST01, 2017 Wilier Cento 10 Ramato, Cinelli Gazetta
THE FUTURE:
Ha! Was that you? About the cable ports and threatening to stuff it full of Sugru, and the swimming pool too? And the chain dropping... you as well? Lol. Geez, there’s always one guy on every trip that causes 90% of the problems. 
As for the slot at the bottom bracket of the C60, and C59 for that matter... it’s a slot that is only exposed to the rear, meaning that for stuff to get in there it has to come from behind, which is pretty hard when you are going forward. Never been a problem for me. And pretty clean in there whenever I’ve removed the crankset. But I sure do like the new bottom bracket as far as the new cable routing goes. They claim that the larger radius going around the large BB shell like that makes for better shifting. Which I totally agree with, but not as much of an improvement as if they had routed the derailleur cables at the headtube like I route mine. I don't know why some manufacturers still route them that way when the alternative way like I've shown is so viable.
As for the slot at the bottom bracket of the C60, and C59 for that matter... it’s a slot that is only exposed to the rear, meaning that for stuff to get in there it has to come from behind, which is pretty hard when you are going forward. Never been a problem for me. And pretty clean in there whenever I’ve removed the crankset. But I sure do like the new bottom bracket as far as the new cable routing goes. They claim that the larger radius going around the large BB shell like that makes for better shifting. Which I totally agree with, but not as much of an improvement as if they had routed the derailleur cables at the headtube like I route mine. I don't know why some manufacturers still route them that way when the alternative way like I've shown is so viable.
Last edited by Calnago on Tue Feb 20, 2018 12:42 am, edited 1 time in total.
Colnago C64 - The Naked Build; Colnago C60 - PR99; Trek Koppenberg - Where Emonda and Domane Meet;
Unlinked Builds (searchable): Colnago C59 - 5 Years Later; Trek Emonda SL Campagnolo SR; Special Colnago EPQ
Unlinked Builds (searchable): Colnago C59 - 5 Years Later; Trek Emonda SL Campagnolo SR; Special Colnago EPQ
Oh, and you do realize that she does not belong to me, right? I only got sucked in by her beauty for what I thought would be a brief fling. But the affair may be turning into true love at this point.
Colnago C64 - The Naked Build; Colnago C60 - PR99; Trek Koppenberg - Where Emonda and Domane Meet;
Unlinked Builds (searchable): Colnago C59 - 5 Years Later; Trek Emonda SL Campagnolo SR; Special Colnago EPQ
Unlinked Builds (searchable): Colnago C59 - 5 Years Later; Trek Emonda SL Campagnolo SR; Special Colnago EPQ
Visit starbike.com Online Retailer for HighEnd cycling components
Great Prices ✓ Broad Selection ✓ Worldwide Delivery ✓
www.starbike.com
Re filling the bottom edge of that swimming pool - that wasn't him, but me huh. 
I'll see how it looks when it arrives, but I may really try something abut that since their approach is just stupid.
As for some cable hoses I've found some wide selection of laboratory ones here (available in the EU at least): http://www.bola.de/nc/en/products/tubin ... etail.html
I suppose You're going to try something like 1.9/2.5 mm? Or what exactly?
I'll see how it looks when it arrives, but I may really try something abut that since their approach is just stupid.
As for some cable hoses I've found some wide selection of laboratory ones here (available in the EU at least): http://www.bola.de/nc/en/products/tubin ... etail.html
I suppose You're going to try something like 1.9/2.5 mm? Or what exactly?
